People who believe in no higher power (miracle, Jesus, homosexuality)

[Shirina]

Hey, I got an idea that will shut up fascists like Clara permanently:

HEY MODS! How about changing the name of the general forum to something like, "Belief and Non-Belief" so that Christians who want to shut up the atheists and keep them all corralled in some little sub-forum where no one but other atheists will hear them can't do that any more?

Yes, I get there is a certain type of Christian who doesn't want to hear an opposing point of view - and only expects to hear wonderful things about the supernatural, the paranormal, the magical, and the unprovable. They want to keep out the so-called "wet blankets" that might rain on their parade of irrationality.

Oh, that's not to say that there isn't a spiritual aspect to the world - but we atheists aren't allowed to express it - or anything else - because we dare fly in the face of convention and not believe in a barbaric monster taken from the pages of a pile of dusty scrolls found in a cave by some desert goatherders - with no original document, I might add.

Yet the Bible is the truth, don't ya know. Never mind that who knows how many of its pages were destroyed by fire because the original founders of the Dead Sea Scrolls used a bunch of them to heat their home. Gee, I wonder what those pages said? Guess will never know now - but it'll be a laugh a minute if we found out the burnt part said, "And they lived happily ever after" because the whole thing was written as a story.

At any rate, that's not what is at issue here.

What IS at issue is that I have no patience with busybodies who literally start a thread to the mods with the express purpose of getting atheists BANNED from the general forum and exiled to one subforum.

This is the kind of fascistic attitude that I fight against with every fiber of my being - and if it ever came to that, it is one of the only things I would pick up a gun and fight against.

As I said before - as an immigrant to this nation, I expected the freedom that is promised. Instead, I have to listen to garbage like Clara's post, taking proactive measures to regulate the forum, playing at being a mod, and to change it to HER liking - regardless of anyone else's feelings.

One thing I have never done - in all the years I've posted here - is tell any Christian they don't have the right to post here. I've never said that to anyone regardless of their belief, regardless of how disgusted I became of them. It's just too bad that certain Christians can't return that kind of respect and understand that if atheists weren't allowed to post here - WE WOULDN'T BE POSTING HERE!

But Clara, obviously not the sharpest knife in the drawer, doesn't seem to realize that this forum has existed for YEARS before she arrived, and people like me have posts on this forum going back half a decade.

But, now that Clara is here, the entire structure of this forum should change - because (wah wah!) she doesn't like atheists challenging her ideas - at ALL. So she plans, in her own way, to get rid of them, and create a forum set to HER liking.

I don't put up with that. At all.

And if the mods put up with it, we atheists would have been gone a long time ago.

But instead of realizing that - which should only take a second or two of thought, Clara set her little plan in motion, deceiving the mods with her meek and humble demeanor - but the reality is that her malicious little plot to ban everyone she didn't like was put into action the moment she went to the MODS in the hopes that she would get exactly what she wanted.

We had another poster like that - a Baptist Fundie - who repeatedly kept asking why atheists were allowed to post here, and I gave the guy a lot of grief. Why? Because I don't like fascists.

Now we have another fascist - and I plan to start up my shillacking again. I was hoping I didn't have to, that maybe I would find a decent sort of Christian here these days.

But no ... it's the same old fascist mentality that wants the forum HER way, even if she has to stoop so low as to try and get people BANNED. Personally, were I a mod, I would have banned her instead. Alas, I am just a user. But when I was an admin on a Brit forum, I made it perfectly clear to the membership that any attempt to silence another group through subterfuge or through abuse of mods and admins would result in a permaban ... and I meant it to.

Which means this place is becoming a *very* target-rich environment. I did try to be nice - for the most part. I really did! And then I saw this thread. So much for being nice. That lasted, what, all of 3 days? I shouldn't be suprised... I shouldn't! But I am. Moreover, I'm disappointed that I have to live in a nation filled with people who don't even understand their own freedoms and would rather not have them at all. No wonder this country is circling the drain.

[Rafius]

Clara is not the only newbie that sees things that way. I count three.

[Shirina]

Originally Posted by Rafius

Clara is not the only newbie that sees things that way. I count three.

Oh don't worry - I'll weed them out soon enough.

[Shirina]

Originally Posted by Rafius

Your repeated BS on this subject is still wrong and I've already told you where you are wrong. You came because you were attacked yourself not to help us out. If you could have had you way, your war would have been in the Pacific against Japan...and screw Europe. Your country saw it as a foreign war that was of no concern to them (in both world wars). You should read more history and watch less John Wayne films. Do you even know that Woodrow Wilson's winning election slogans during WWI were ...'He kept us out of the war.' and 'America First'.

Like you, I've lost a lot of my love for America - not just because they voted for Trump - but because, after two years, they still support him and worship him like a God. Because stupid is as stupid does. America has one of the least educated populations in the industrialized world - all they care about is knowing enough to do their job correctly and everything else is worthless knowledge.

Having said that, however, Hillary Clinton won the election by 3 million votes. The problem is that annoying Electoral College who wanted Trump as president regardless of what the people want. When a small, select group of elites can override the will of hundreds of millions of people, we don't have a true democracy.

If we did, Clinton would be the president right now, not a doddering moron who spends 6 hours per day watching Fox News and talking on a cellphone that both the Chinese and the Russians tapped and also listen to everything Trump says - all because he refused to use the special government phone. Because he was too lazy to enter all his contacts in his new phone. True story. Makes Hillary's BS email scandal seem tame by comparison.

But yes, having an ammoral criminal narcissist in office is rather disconcerting.

Originally Posted by Rafius

So yeah. Thanks for your help, we appreciate it but in reality, we owe you no more than we owe Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India, France and quite a few countries that were in it from the start not just the last year when it was almost over...and for the record, we owe you a damn sight less that we owe those 'filthy commie Russian bastards' that you hate so much, who lost 10,000,000 during the war. Read that again fella 10,000,000! The war was over after Stalingrad, thanks to those 'filthy commie Russian bastards' and THEN you guys come in singing 'The Yanks are Coming' and expecting us to be eternally kissing your arse for it. Yeah, you're right. It does make me mad.

Actually, the Soviet Union lost 21,000,000 if you count civilians. Anyhow ...

Now - while I understand you want to diss America because we didn't come running to your rescue on September 2nd, 1939, that doesn't mean you can distort history in quite the way you have.

Understand this - World War II was nothing more than the culmination of 1600 years of constant European wars. You know - the War of the Roses, the 100 Years War, the Napoleonic era, etc. etc. If YOU were a nation on the other side of the "pond" who saw Britain as an enemy for the majority of the time your country existed - noting also that you had to fight a revolution to get out from under the rule of Britain's king - just how quick would you respond to Britain?

In between the wars, there was even the possibility of Britain and America going to war against each other, even before WWII began. America's and Britain's "special status" did not even begin until during the war. That alliance did not exist - at all - in September, 1939.

Not only that - even IF America had joined the war at the same time as Britain, you would have gotten ZERO help from America because we weren't ready for a war in any conceivable way. Our entire military - the ENTIRE military - had 250,000 men, ranked 16th in the world, the same size as Portugal and Chile.

Also, keep in mind how YOU would feel, being dragged into a world war that was none of your business. As far as Americans saw it, WWII was just another war that Europe started because it can't get along with itself - as I said, Europe has been fighting itself for almost two millennia - and my guess is that they would STILL be fighting if it hadn't been for the advent of the nuclear age where large scale fighting can no longer be done without a worldwide holocaust.

Like it or not, Americans at the time had a dim view of Britain and it's Empire. Just as the USA had to fight a revolution to get out from under Britain's heel, many Americans felt that other nations should do the same. We believed in self-determination for places like Egypt, India, Iraq, and other nations you kept a hold of as colonies.

The point is that America did not have a love affair with Britain in August of 1939 and saw no reason to get embroiled in yet ANOTHER European war. If we kept getting involved, then what, would America have to intervene a third time? A fourth? A fifth? If it hasn't ended in almost 2,000 years, why would we expect an end to all the fighting after WWII? As I said, if not for the two atomic weapons, you folks would STILL be at each others' throats. And in some ways, you still are. Look at Russia and the Ukraine. Look at the former Yugoslavia. Sure, the bad behavior moved a bit further east, but it's still there.

Also, as for the Russians are concerned. Yes, they won the war on the ground. But would they have if not for Lend-Lease? Would they have if 80% of the Luftwaffe hadn't been recalled from the Eastern Front to protect German cities from Allied bombing raids? Would they have if Hitler hadn't told Von Manstein to end the battle of Kursk so Hitler could pull a huge chunk of his forces out of Russia to defend against the Allied invasion of Sicily? Would they have if the Wehrmacht didn't have to hold back a crapton of divisions to fend off D-Day which they knew was coming? Would they have if they hadn't kept back 300,000 men in Norway just to hold the country?

Keep in mind, too, something Stalin had said. When they had one of their conferences, Churchill asked Stalin, "With all the advances the Red Army made, I bet you feel pretty good about yourself." Stalin responded with, "In the same amount of time, Czar Alexander was in England."

The point here is that Stalin had NO intentions of stopping at the German border. In fact, Patton had to divert north to keep Stalin out of Holland and Belgium or they too would have fallen behind the Iron Curtain. I can almost guarantee that if not for the presence of American forces, Stalin would of rolled right into Italy, France, Spain, and Portugal - and guess who would be next? Uh huh. Get the idea?

When Stalin declared war on Japan, the Red Army steam rolled into Asia - and even after the Japenese surrendered, Stalin kept fighting for another 10 days just to gobble up places like, eh, North Korea, North Vietnam, Manchuria, and then helped Mao turn China communist. America and China were staunch allies and then 5 years later we were fighting them. Why? Stalin. Period.

Why was there a Korean War? A Vietnam War? Stalin. Period.

And he would have done the *exact* same thing to Europe. So while your thanking your buddy Stalin for "winning" the war, you might want to think about what life would have been like living behind the Iron Curtain under the control of the Kremlin? I'd ask Poland, Rumania, Bulgaria, and other nations that revolted against the communists within 5 years of the end of WWII - or why hundreds of thousands of East Germans defected to the West before the wall was built? It's not pleasant to be ruled by a tyrant.

Believe me, I'm not happy having a president who takes his marching orders from Putin - or having an electoral college that has a penchant for putting Republicans in office over the will of the people. Nor am I proud to have a president who lied or misled 147 times in a single two-hour speech. I am even less proud to be part of a nation who actually thinks this misogynist thug is worth the oxygen he consumes.

But ... being angry at America because we didn't rush to Britain's aid in September 1939 just shows that you don't have the greatest understanding of the time period. Plus, I would add, that I find it hypocritical that Amerca is accused all the time of being an "Imperialist" nation or a warmongering nation. Yet, even if that WERE true, Europe made us into what we are. Before WWII we just wanted to be left alone - but thanks to Europe and Asia going on a nationalistic warpath, we couldn't do that. The result was an America who became the world's policeman - a job we didn't ask for nor do we want. Despite our desires and our exceedingly massive defense budget that we have to spend protecting everyone else, if we packed up and became isolationist again, many places around the world would decend into chaos.

Just thought I'd put things into prospective. The things Arach said, well ... he's been poisoned by an improper definition of socialism. The old Cold Warriors from an earlier time probably don't even know the difference between socialism and communism - and think that, because socialism was mismanaged by a paranoid dictator, that's the only way socialism can run. Here in the USA, however, polling data shows that most Americans see socialism as "freedom for all," and "equality" and generally a good thing - despite what the old fogies think. I WISH America had Britain's health care system, for instance, instead of paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to robber baron insurance companies just so they can deny your claim.

But I won't even get into how our health care resembles how health care was doled out in Auschwitz. Feel free to PM me or something since I'm sure someone is going to lean on the report button and silence me by crying, "This post is too political!"

Only reason why I posted this at all is because of some historical perspectives that I did not think was altogether fair. If you want to delete this, mods, fine - but at least give Rafius the chance to read it first. Cuz I like the guy and wouldn't want him walking around with a very spotty understanding of how things were. Thanks.

And no offense, Rafius.

[ClaraC]

Originally Posted by Shirina

Hey, I got an idea that will shut up fascists like Clara permanently:

HEY MODS! How about changing the name of the general forum to something like, "Belief and Non-Belief" so that Christians who want to shut up the atheists and keep them all corralled in some little sub-forum where no one but other atheists will hear them can't do that any more?

Yes, I get there is a certain type of Christian who doesn't want to hear an opposing point of view - and only expects to hear wonderful things about the supernatural, the paranormal, the magical, and the unprovable. They want to keep out the so-called "wet blankets" that might rain on their parade of irrationality.

Oh, that's not to say that there isn't a spiritual aspect to the world - but we atheists aren't allowed to express it - or anything else - because we dare fly in the face of convention and not believe in a barbaric monster taken from the pages of a pile of dusty scrolls found in a cave by some desert goatherders - with no original document, I might add.

Yet the Bible is the truth, don't ya know. Never mind that who knows how many of its pages were destroyed by fire because the original founders of the Dead Sea Scrolls used a bunch of them to heat their home. Gee, I wonder what those pages said? Guess will never know now - but it'll be a laugh a minute if we found out the burnt part said, "And they lived happily ever after" because the whole thing was written as a story.

At any rate, that's not what is at issue here.

What IS at issue is that I have no patience with busybodies who literally start a thread to the mods with the express purpose of getting atheists BANNED from the general forum and exiled to one subforum.

This is the kind of fascistic attitude that I fight against with every fiber of my being - and if it ever came to that, it is one of the only things I would pick up a gun and fight against.

As I said before - as an immigrant to this nation, I expected the freedom that is promised. Instead, I have to listen to garbage like Clara's post, taking proactive measures to regulate the forum, playing at being a mod, and to change it to HER liking - regardless of anyone else's feelings.

One thing I have never done - in all the years I've posted here - is tell any Christian they don't have the right to post here. I've never said that to anyone regardless of their belief, regardless of how disgusted I became of them. It's just too bad that certain Christians can't return that kind of respect and understand that if atheists weren't allowed to post here - WE WOULDN'T BE POSTING HERE!

But Clara, obviously not the sharpest knife in the drawer, doesn't seem to realize that this forum has existed for YEARS before she arrived, and people like me have posts on this forum going back half a decade.

But, now that Clara is here, the entire structure of this forum should change - because (wah wah!) she doesn't like atheists challenging her ideas - at ALL. So she plans, in her own way, to get rid of them, and create a forum set to HER liking.

I don't put up with that. At all.

And if the mods put up with it, we atheists would have been gone a long time ago.

But instead of realizing that - which should only take a second or two of thought, Clara set her little plan in motion, deceiving the mods with her meek and humble demeanor - but the reality is that her malicious little plot to ban everyone she didn't like was put into action the moment she went to the MODS in the hopes that she would get exactly what she wanted.

We had another poster like that - a Baptist Fundie - who repeatedly kept asking why atheists were allowed to post here, and I gave the guy a lot of grief. Why? Because I don't like fascists.

Now we have another fascist - and I plan to start up my shillacking again. I was hoping I didn't have to, that maybe I would find a decent sort of Christian here these days.

But no ... it's the same old fascist mentality that wants the forum HER way, even if she has to stoop so low as to try and get people BANNED. Personally, were I a mod, I would have banned her instead. Alas, I am just a user. But when I was an admin on a Brit forum, I made it perfectly clear to the membership that any attempt to silence another group through subterfuge or through abuse of mods and admins would result in a permaban ... and I meant it to.

Which means this place is becoming a *very* target-rich environment. I did try to be nice - for the most part. I really did! And then I saw this thread. So much for being nice. That lasted, what, all of 3 days? I shouldn't be suprised... I shouldn't! But I am. Moreover, I'm disappointed that I have to live in a nation filled with people who don't even understand their own freedoms and would rather not have them at all. No wonder this country is circling the drain.

*wonders if this guy has remembered to take his blood pressure meds today. I certainly don't want to be responsible in any way for him stroking out right in front of us*

[Shirina]

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

hey dude, whatever. you really are going to have to rub up someone else' leg. your a foreign anti-religious socialist that doesn't care about america and its people.

And WHY, Arach, would anyone WANT to give a damn about America and its people if they think all Americans act like you do?

Gee ... I wonder. Yeah, let's be rude and nationalistic but still expect everyone to love you.

Does that actually make sense to you? Seriously?

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

you need a war. of course you will get one, and we will have to go over their again and bail you out. lmao at your Russian comment, I when you said that i thought, something was up. now I see why you did it.

There are only two things America is even good at anymore - at least in terms of statistics:

1. Fighting wars
2. Oh and we have the best colleges in the world - but they are filled up with foreigners because Americans can't afford to attend them.

LOL!

Not a great testament to where our country is headed ... ya know?

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

you see basic understanding of the system around us is all anybody needs to see something more is going on. It may not be god, but its not nothing.

Maybe - maybe not. But simply "looking around" does not bring us to the truth, now, does it. Non-stop incidences of pareidolia is proof enough of that. "Look, it's the Virgin Mary in that water stain under a bridge" or "Wow, Jesus is on my toast!" or that idiot who literally bought an old piece of pizza on ebay because some topping or other resembed Mary. He paid $20,000 for it! Now, why can't an intelligent person have so much money that they can spend half a year's salary on a piece of pizza - that they can't even eat! Might want to get CV to look at that, what, with the best pizza ever, and all. (Har har)

Point is that simply looking at something doesn't tell us much except what something looks like. Until there is some kind of demonstrable evidence that isn't mere speculation to work with, all we really have is a guess. It's not even a hypothesis yet.

Not saying your wrong, Arach, but there's no demonstrable reason why I think you're right, either.

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

I'll stick to foreign anti-religious socialist just trying to get by insulting america any way they can

Here's a hint: Stop giving people REASONS to insult America and just maybe they won't do it.

Ya know?

"How often the simple solution eludes us," -- George Carlin

[Shirina]

Originally Posted by ClaraC

*wonders if this guy has remembered to take his blood pressure meds today. I certainly don't want to be responsible in any way for him stroking out right in front of us*

And here we go - the usual dismissal of a post you can't possibly refute. It's what I've come to expect from fascists. They never pull back from their position and instead revert to ad hominem attacks that aren't even relevant to the dicussion - or the post I wrote.

If I had a nickel everytime one of these people made some stupid comment involving medication, even I could be president!

Do you have anything relevant to say? Otherwise I'm going to keep making you look like the unChristian Christian that I assume you are.

As General Zodd said in the movie Superman II: "Is there anyone on this planet to even challenge me?"

Because people like Clara certainly don't. I almost feel guilty for beating up on her. I really pine for the days of Jeffbase, Vizio, Eusebius - you know, the Christians who could give as good as they got without ... well ... acting like the proverbial snowflake? I really miss those guys.

But guilt won't stop me. Nope.

[ImissThe90's]

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

whatever 90's ...

you keep doing you and I'll keep not worry about you addressing my grammer.

and you don't decide what liberal atheism is. In fact, if youre with the anti-god sect, you aren't liberal atheist either.

No, I don't decide, but there are things that make one a liberal or an atheist, and you seem to not fall into either category. However, I won't be commenting on the liberal aspect again, as this is not the appropriate forum, no matter how many times you bring it (or socialism) up.

[ImissThe90's]

Originally Posted by TroutDude

My youngest son is dyslexic. Spellcheck doesn't help. He can change the highlighted word five times and it still comes up red. So, after years, he doesn't bother. About every third or fourth word he texts or emails me is misspelled but can be in the phonetic ballpark. His job doesn't require writing skills and those who know him, learn to read him.

I realize that some of Arach's posts are hard to parse. But many are worth the effort.

So sayeth the socialist, liberal from Canuckistan whose country took part in both WWs from the first shot to the last.

That could be true, but does it also keep him from making sense? It is one thing to have something like "it doesnit mater" and another to have an incoherent or rambling sentence.... That being said, I won't comment on that part again.

However, I will continue to point out that if he is a liberal atheist, he certainly doesn't come off as one with his constant babbling about liberalism, socialism, and "anti-God". I mean, when is the last time you heard a conservative Christian constantly rambling about conservatism, religion, and "anti-atheists"???

[CorporateCowboy]

Originally Posted by ClaraC

*wonders if this guy has remembered to take his blood pressure meds today. I certainly don't want to be responsible in any way for him stroking out right in front of us*

I don’t know who you mean, but most people are not that invested in (or angered by) people’s opinions in a forum. Maybe he should focus on a healthy diet and exercise so he doesn’t need meds at all?