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Yes, poor thing...she feels like a leaf being blown around in the wind. She has no belief at this point (also, a Catholic, but, floundering in that, for sure).
And she is so sweet.
Thanks for Pleroo...and Trans. xxoo
Unfortunately she probably still has some beliefs and they are confusing rather than comforting her
But they have banned a "natural" God from the R&S forum and it cannot be discussed in the Science forum because it is God. Convenient, demand that God be "supernatural" (which does not exist) and ban a "natural" God from the R&S forums instantiating a Godless and atheistic rule for the R&S forums. Ignorant and arrogant b******s make me sick! Quite the trick that the atheists have conned the powers that be into, isn't it? The "natural" God is NOT presuppositional. That is the "supernatural" God. It is the "Nature" supposition that assigns all existing evidence to a "No God Nature" (which remains just as unexplained as God) and demands proof of God.
I knew this was coming (which is why I do not post here much anymore). Myself and Mordant spoke against this awhile back. ya can't use science to prove God exists here because you can't speak about science and you can't use science to prove God exists on the science form because you cant speak of God.
Ridiculous.
However there is still a double standard used here on this forum that should not be there.
Science is not to be used yet every time a fundamental christian who takes Genesis literally makes a post regarding creation the atheist jumps all over them with science and I have yet to see them reproved for doing so, yet when the Christian response in kind (with science) they are quickly shut down by the mods.
In other words if one finds God in science and wants to talk about it they can't because according to the mods and atheists God can only be found by faith.
For myself I see God in the whole of creation ( everything that is made declares His glory) yet am not allowed to tell others how this can be seen.
In other word this sub form is not about religion and spirituality its more about censuring what what the mods determine is religion and spirituality.
Fundamentalism at its best, if you don't believe as we do........fill in the blanks.
I knew this was coming (which is why I do not post here much anymore). Myself and Mordant spoke against this awhile back. ya can't use science to prove God exists here because you can't speak about science and you can't use science to prove God exists on the science form because you cant speak of God.
Ridiculous.
However there is still a double standard used here on this forum that should not be there.
Science is not to be used yet every time a fundamental christian who takes Genesis literally makes a post regarding creation the atheist jumps all over them with science and I have yet to see them reproved for doing so, yet when the Christian response in kind (with science) they are quickly shut down by the mods.
In other words if one finds God in science and wants to talk about it they can't because according to the mods and atheists God can only be found by faith.
For myself I see God in the whole of creation ( everything that is made declares His glory) yet am not allowed to tell others how this can be seen.
In other word this sub form is not about religion and spirituality its more about censuring what what the mods determine is religion and spirituality.
Fundamentalism at its best, if you don't believe as we do........fill in the blanks.
The reason why I stopped posting here awhile back is because the censorship had gotten completely out of control. Some of the most entertaining debates were about evolution and the Big Bang as it related to the existence of a God. Well, can't do that anymore.
Can't talk about politics - at all - even when it relates to religion and its effects on political decisions.
Now, it's not just evolution and the Big Bang, it's science in general that cannot be discussed. That rules out all those silly but entertaining debates about subjects like Noah's flood because to disprove such claims with science would be violating the rules (meaning Christians can now lay down a claim and we atheists are virtually powerless to refute it.)
There was presumably a case where talking about Hell was forbidden.
And now am I to understand that one cannot even discuss the idea of a "natural" God?
*sigh*
I came back hoping perhaps things had gotten better. Apparently ... they haven't.
No wonder the topics and the debate lately has been - sorry to say - rather stale.
The reason why I stopped posting here awhile back is because the censorship had gotten completely out of control. Some of the most entertaining debates were about evolution and the Big Bang as it related to the existence of a God. Well, can't do that anymore.
Can't talk about politics - at all - even when it relates to religion and its effects on political decisions.
Now, it's not just evolution and the Big Bang, it's science in general that cannot be discussed. That rules out all those silly but entertaining debates about subjects like Noah's flood because to disprove such claims with science would be violating the rules (meaning Christians can now lay down a claim and we atheists are virtually powerless to refute it.)
There was presumably a case where talking about Hell was forbidden.
And now am I to understand that one cannot even discuss the idea of a "natural" God?
*sigh*
I came back hoping perhaps things had gotten better. Apparently ... they haven't.
No wonder the topics and the debate lately has been - sorry to say - rather stale.
thanks for adding that shirina. seems that this sub-form is actually driving people away from the form itself because of the censorship. I just don't get it maybe we should lobby for an evolution verses God sub form where we can talk about God and science to our hearts content. Heck if people get upset because of debates on this stuff all they have to do is not read the thread, I guess self restraint is asking to much of people. lol
thanks for adding that shirina. seems that this sub-form is actually driving people away from the form itself because of the censorship. I just don't get it maybe we should lobby for an evolution verses God sub form where we can talk about God and science to our hearts content. Heck if people get upset because of debates on this stuff all they have to do is not read the thread, I guess self restraint is asking to much of people. lol
Be well shirina
Well, as someone who held several leadership positions going all the way back to bulletin boards, I can say that it's not that easy.
Conversations, as you undoubtedly know, take on a life of their own. There's no knowing where a conversation might lead.
MOST forums I've ever helped lead and forums where I've posted, the mods never cared if a thread strayed off-topic 5 or 6 pages later. The only time it became an issue is if the thread immediately went off the rails or was hijacked. Here, though, there is little tolerance for the free-flow of ideas. Everything must be compartmentalized to a severe degree.
The problem is that, while yes, you could start another thread or even create a sub-forum if the topic is popular enough - but what I've seen again and again is that the moment the conversation is interruped and people have to start posting somewhere else - they simply don't.
Usually no one cares what topic is being talked about 300 posts later, but here - well - it even inhibits the posters from getting to know one another because any chit-chat would be off topic.
And like I said, if you have to try and carry over a conversation to a completely different forum - whether taking it to the science forum, the politics forum, some social forum - the conversation will simply die. Because most of the people won't go there. And while maybe the conversation in those forums will pick up and even thrive, it won't be with the people you *wanted* to talk to. It'll be a completely new group of strangers you've probably never posted with before.
Thus you cannot talk about politics as it pertains to religion - or why evolution is true based on the science - or why Noah's flood is ridiculous - with the people *here*. You can start it here - and then you're topic will end up exiled to a completely different forum and you'll be talking to an entirely new group of people whose opinions, religiosity, mindset, mental state, personalities, etc. you know nothing about. You want to discuss it with specific people that you kinda-sorta *know* because you may have been posting with them for years. If you take it somewhere else, almost certainly the people you want to talk to will *not* follow even if you ask them to. People get fond of posting in one forum - or a handful of forums - and stay where the water is warm, ya know?
Anyway ... this place used to be a lot livelier a year or so ago. It would be nice if there was more freedom. Who knows. Maybe whoever is responsible for slamming down the iron fist will change their minds.
For lack of a better idea, though, I'm in agreement with a couple of new subforums. In fact, not too long ago I suggested that there be a "religion and politics" and "religion and science" subforum but, as you can see, someone somewhere nixed my ideas since neither ever happened.
But they have banned a "natural" God from the R&S forum and it cannot be discussed in the Science forum because it is God. Convenient, demand that God be "supernatural" (which does not exist) and ban a "natural" God from the R&S forums instantiating a Godless and atheistic rule for the R&S forums. Ignorant and arrogant b******s make me sick! Quite the trick that the atheists have conned the powers that be into, isn't it? The "natural" God is NOT presuppositional. That is the "supernatural" God. It is the "Nature" supposition that assigns all existing evidence to a "No God Nature" (which remains just as unexplained as God) and demands proof of God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
I knew this was coming (which is why I do not post here much anymore). Myself and Mordant spoke against this a while back. ya can't use science to prove God exists here because you can't speak about science and you can't use science to prove God exists on the science form because you can't speak of God.
Ridiculous.
However, there is still a double standard used here on this forum that should not be there.
Science is not to be used yet every time a fundamental Christian who takes Genesis literally makes a post regarding creation the atheist jumps all over them with science and I have yet to see them reproved for doing so, yet when the Christian response in kind (with science) they are quickly shut down by the mods.
In other words, if one finds God in science and wants to talk about it they can't because according to the mods and atheists God can only be found by faith.
For myself, I see God in the whole of creation ( everything that is made declares His glory) yet am not allowed to tell others how this can be seen.
In other words, this sub-forum is not about religion and spirituality its more about censuring what the mods determine is religion and spirituality.
Fundamentalism at its best, if you don't believe as we do........fill in the blanks.
Amen, pneuma. The forum powers that be operate in singular ignorance (lack of knowledge) of the actual subject matter of the forums.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
The reason why I stopped posting here a while back is because the censorship had gotten completely out of control. Some of the most entertaining debates were about evolution and the Big Bang as it related to the existence of a God. Well, can't do that anymore.
Can't talk about politics - at all - even when it relates to religion and its effects on political decisions.
Now, it's not just evolution and the Big Bang, it's science in general that cannot be discussed. That rules out all those silly but entertaining debates about subjects like Noah's flood because to disprove such claims with science would be violating the rules (meaning Christians can now lay down a claim and we atheists are virtually powerless to refute it.)
There was presumably a case where talking about Hell was forbidden.
And now am I to understand that one cannot even discuss the idea of a "natural" God?
*sigh*
I came back hoping perhaps things had gotten better. Apparently ... they haven't.
No wonder the topics and the debate lately has been - sorry to say - rather stale.
Thank you, Shirina. As seemingly one of the few objective and open-minded atheists in the forum, your voice is definitely needed to try to break the stranglehold the fundamentalist atheists seem to have on the forum powers that be. Hopefully, they will read your words and reconsider their rash anti-God censorship of the forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
thanks for adding that Shirina. seems that this sub-forum is actually driving people away from the forum itself because of the censorship. I just don't get it maybe we should lobby for an evolution versus God subforum where we can talk about God and science to our heart's content. Heck if people get upset because of debates on this stuff all they have to do is not read the thread, I guess self-restraint is asking too much of people. lol
Be well shirina
Hope springs eternal, pneuma, but my read of the powers that be is not at all encouraging. They seem to lack sufficient knowledge to evaluate the issues cogently.
Well, as someone who held several leadership positions going all the way back to bulletin boards, I can say that it's not that easy.
Conversations, as you undoubtedly know, take on a life of their own. There's no knowing where a conversation might lead.
MOST forums I've ever helped lead and forums where I've posted, the mods never cared if a thread strayed off-topic 5 or 6 pages later. The only time it became an issue is if the thread immediately went off the rails or was hijacked. Here, though, there is little tolerance for the free-flow of ideas. Everything must be compartmentalized to a severe degree.
The problem is that, while yes, you could start another thread or even create a sub-forum if the topic is popular enough - but what I've seen again and again is that the moment the conversation is interruped and people have to start posting somewhere else - they simply don't.
Usually no one cares what topic is being talked about 300 posts later, but here - well - it even inhibits the posters from getting to know one another because any chit-chat would be off topic.
And like I said, if you have to try and carry over a conversation to a completely different forum - whether taking it to the science forum, the politics forum, some social forum - the conversation will simply die. Because most of the people won't go there. And while maybe the conversation in those forums will pick up and even thrive, it won't be with the people you *wanted* to talk to. It'll be a completely new group of strangers you've probably never posted with before.
Thus you cannot talk about politics as it pertains to religion - or why evolution is true based on the science - or why Noah's flood is ridiculous - with the people *here*. You can start it here - and then you're topic will end up exiled to a completely different forum and you'll be talking to an entirely new group of people whose opinions, religiosity, mindset, mental state, personalities, etc. you know nothing about. You want to discuss it with specific people that you kinda-sorta *know* because you may have been posting with them for years. If you take it somewhere else, almost certainly the people you want to talk to will *not* follow even if you ask them to. People get fond of posting in one forum - or a handful of forums - and stay where the water is warm, ya know?
Anyway ... this place used to be a lot livelier a year or so ago. It would be nice if there was more freedom. Who knows. Maybe whoever is responsible for slamming down the iron fist will change their minds.
For lack of a better idea, though, I'm in agreement with a couple of new subforums. In fact, not too long ago I suggested that there be a "religion and politics" and "religion and science" subforum but, as you can see, someone somewhere nixed my ideas since neither ever happened.
Take care.
Your posts in this thread need to be copied and DM'd to the Senior Moderators and Administrators of C-D or they will remain clueless about the ignorant (lack of knowledge) iron hand of censorship that exists in the R&S forums.
Your posts in this thread need to be copied and DM'd to the Senior Moderators and Administrators of C-D or they will remain clueless about the ignorant (lack of knowledge) iron hand of censorship that exists in the R&S forums.
I tried ... I did. I really tried. I had conversations with some mods on the issue. But they can't do anything either because I think the rulings are coming from a higher tier of authority. It's not Mordant or MQ's fault, really - they're just doing their job.
Quote:
As seemingly one of the few objective and open-minded atheists in the forum
LOL! "Seemingly" one of the few? Hehe, just kidding. I don't think either side should be censored.
However, I'd be careful in framing it in terms of: "Only Christians get shut down, but the atheists can say what they want!"
Because trust me, I've been shut down loads of times - probably hundreds. I was even banned a couple of times. Both sides get it. We just don't notice it. After all, we're really only concerned about the side we're on, right?
I doubt any of the mods will take anyone seriously if it sounds more like complaining about perceived favoritism than actual censorship. After all, I never saw any Christians complaining when any of my posts were edited or deleted, ya know?
thanks for adding that shirina. seems that this sub-form is actually driving people away from the form itself because of the censorship. I just don't get it maybe we should lobby for an evolution verses God sub form where we can talk about God and science to our hearts content. Heck if people get upset because of debates on this stuff all they have to do is not read the thread, I guess self-restraint is asking to much of people. lol
Be well shirina
The reason why people are driven away is that the forum titles are misleading, sort of like the Christianity and Agnostic forums.
What's preventing you from holding evolution vs. God debates on the A/A forum? .
I knew this was coming (which is why I do not post here much anymore). Myself and Mordant spoke against this awhile back. ya can't use science to prove God exists here because you can't speak about science and you can't use science to prove God exists on the science form because you cant speak of God.
Ridiculous.
However there is still a double standard used here on this forum that should not be there.
Science is not to be used yet every time a fundamental christian who takes Genesis literally makes a post regarding creation the atheist jumps all over them with science and I have yet to see them reproved for doing so, yet when the Christian response in kind (with science) they are quickly shut down by the mods.
In other words if one finds God in science and wants to talk about it they can't because according to the mods and atheists God can only be found by faith.
For myself I see God in the whole of creation ( everything that is made declares His glory) yet am not allowed to tell others how this can be seen.
In other word this sub form is not about religion and spirituality its more about censuring what what the mods determine is religion and spirituality.
Fundamentalism at its best, if you don't believe as we do........fill in the blanks.
You would have a valid point if you and Mystic actually did use science.
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xxoo
Quite the trick that the atheists have conned the powers that be into, isn't it? The "natural" God is NOT presuppositional. That is the "supernatural" God. It is the "Nature" supposition that assigns all existing evidence to a "No God Nature" (which remains just as unexplained as God) and demands proof of God. 
