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I'm sorry, but there is nothing in that question that relates to anything I've said EVER. I don't even understand what you are asking.
If someone would like to rephrase it in a different question, feel free.
No, I wasn't playing dumb. You were just trying to use me to help prove a point you are making. The fact that you weren't really replying to anything I had said was proof to me that you weren't really engaging in a true discussion here. Proof that you will use ANYTHING to tell yourself what you have already settled in your mind. Even something as artificial and phony as our "discussion" in this thread.
I don't know. But one OBVIOUS way to interpret it is that any prayer which is answered perhaps means that the person praying was already in tune with God's direction. But that doesn't discount prayer that is Unanswered. Unanswered prayer helps people to see things from a new perspective.
Have you heard the Garth Brooks song "Unanswered Prayers"? You might think it's corny but it was a popular song.
I'll answer with what I believe to be true based on the facts.
We haven't vaguest clue--and when I say clue I mean literally--about what Jesus said. Nothing he ever said was written down. A century later when the gospel writers were putting flesh on the myth they had to put something into Jesus' mouth so they invented all the red-lettering you see in the gospels. Christians believe Jesus actually said all this. Christians don't read their Bibles nor do they know the first thing about their religion's history so they don't know everything Jesus says in the Bible is made-up out of the minds of the writers. Now here's where it gets interesting:
The early church was desperate to get members into their new religion. So they made up this phony promise that if you just ask God in Jesus' name for something God will give it to you. They stuck it into all four gospels so they could be certain it was being seen by all pagans being drawn into the net. Doesn't matter that the promise was phony as a 3-dollar bill. All that mattered was that it could be an effective bait to lure pagans into the Christian fishnet. So that's how Jesus ended up making a promise to Christians that he could never fulfill. Wasn't Jesus fault--he didn't even know about it, having been crucified 100 years earlier by the Romans for sedition against Rome.
And that's how a worthless promise on prayer ended up in the New Testament and how Christians are too lazy to research it for themselves to find out how shoddy Mark 11:24 really is. That is, until they pray on the authority of Mark 11:24 in Jesus' name and their child dies anyway. Just as it has happened for millions upon millions of parents who have lost their children to disease and learned the hard way Jesus' promise isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Parents like this poor soul, a former devout Christian who is now an agnostic:
Quote:
I've completely lost my faith in God.
So this lead me to question on how can we believe in a God of prayer? If God won't answer something big as that, why would I believe God would answer my prayers? The God of the Bible is seriously a big let down, both emotionally and logically, that I don't think I can ever reconcile with.
So I've answered the question for you, Ozzy. No need to continue playing dodgeball.
I don't know. But one OBVIOUS way to interpret it is that any prayer which is answered perhaps means that the person praying was already in tune with God's direction. But that doesn't discount prayer that is Unanswered. Unanswered prayer helps people to see things from a new perspective.
Have you heard the Garth Brooks song "Unanswered Prayers"? You might think it's corny but it was a popular song.
I appreciate your honesty in saying that you 'don't know' (cannot give a convincing explanation) of this problem. But you do your best to try to explain it in less convincing terms. I give you kudos for actually answering the question as best you can.
I have to confess that i am a bit closed -minded as regards choice of music. As to the rest, 'In tune with God' sounds like 'ask in Faith'. Which also means that those prayers that are not answered were asked without enough Faith while those that are answered were asked with enough. I had no idea that faith fluctuated so much. I had this idea that one either had Faith or not.
Plus the back -up explanation that an unanswered prayer is actually answered with 'No' because it teaches a more valuable lesson than actually granting the prayer.
It is the best explanation (out of consideration for your efforts, I won't use the term Excuse) that you could make (other than the 'Wait', and 'Later'), but you must understand that it only works for the believer and for those who do Not believe, it looks like exactly what would happen if you had no God and no Answered prayer at all, and is thus No reason or 'evidence' for a god whatsoever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules
No, I wasn't playing dumb. You were just trying to use me to help prove a point you are making. The fact that you weren't really replying to anything I had said was proof to me that you weren't really engaging in a true discussion here. Proof that you will use ANYTHING to tell yourself what you have already settled in your mind. Even something as artificial and phony as our "discussion" in this thread.
Of course we were 'using you' to prove a point that we are making - the evidence is that prayer does not work; certainly not in the way promised in the gospels. This is what debate with Christian apologists does - is uses them to show that they cannot come up with convincing explanation of why we should believe any of their claims. The only way to avoid getting into this position is to stop making (or supporting) the claims. Not to complain about it when you get backed into a corner.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 03-31-2019 at 11:20 PM..
I have my own experience with the powerlessness of prayer. I was deathly sick. I had my church come in and pray for me. Nothing happened. In desperation I went to a doctor who put me on medication and I was healed. God didn't cure me, medicine did.
There is no better way to measure the total bankruptcy of Christianity than to examine the track record of prayer when Christians pray for a desired outcome, follow all the rules and conditions that Jesus lays down, and then have to stand by and watch helplessly as nothing happens. Their loved one dies, they lose their job, they lose their residency and go homeless, they're rendered penniless. They prayed through all of it and prayer got them nowhere. And the best their church can offer them is, "Must be the will of God" or "You must have unconfessed sin in your life" or "God's ways are mysterious" when all they had to say is the unvarnished truth, "Nothing fails like prayer, I'm sorry."
Most Christians don't know that there is an ironclad promise made by the Bible that specifically singles out illness--God will heal sickness specifically--that is apart from the ones Jesus made in the four gospels that, generally speaking, God will grant any request if it is made in Jesus' name. Here it is:
Did you get that?
*If you're sick, even dying--cancer, Hodgkins, diabetes, heart disease, you name it--call for the church elders.
*Let the church elders pray over you
*Anoint the person with oil in the name of Jesus
*Jesus will heal the sick person
Simple as that.
Except that Jesus won't. The best promises you can find in the Bible that God will rescue your loved ones from evil fail miserably and there is no place Christian conmen can hide when it comes to this fact. Study after study bear out the fact that prayer has absolutely no force at all in healing someone who's sick or dying. Christians try to wiggle around this by claiming that James isn't promising physical healing but rather, spiritual healing. Really? Look at the next line, "The Lord shall raise him up."
Surely Christians can't wiggle out of that one! Don't we expect that James is using the phrase "raise up" the way Matthew uses it in 8:14-15 when Jesus raised up Peter's mother?
This is not rocket science, folks. If there is any single proof prayer is Christianity's Achilles' heel then it has to be this:
It's a double whammy. Not only did prayer fail utterly in helping patients avoid complications from bypass surgery, but those who knew they were being prayed for actually fared worse. The next time you're at death's door and your Christian friend says, "I'll pray for you" scream at him, "Don't you dare!" And then run for the hills because you know he's going to anyway--chances are because he's trying to squirm out of paying back all that cash he owes you.
I agree, and have used the term with capitals (I do that quite a lot) in the past, because the realisation of the sheer size, scope and antiquity of this religious con - trick was quite staggering.
I don't know. But one OBVIOUS way to interpret it is that any prayer which is answered perhaps means that the person praying was already in tune with God's direction. But that doesn't discount prayer that is Unanswered. Unanswered prayer helps people to see things from a new perspective.
Have you heard the Garth Brooks song "Unanswered Prayers"? You might think it's corny but it was a popular song.
I'm trying to figure out how my son's mother's unanswered prayer helps me see things from a different perspective or how that might be in any way beneficial to me or his mother or to his friends. Five years later his friends are still writing on his facebook page how they miss him.
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