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Philippians 2, Jesus emptied himself, gives up his power, became a man so that he could die.
While Philippians 2 does say that Jesus "emptied himself", it does NOT say that he "gave up his power(s)".
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And what was that alleged prophecy? To die. Therefore he had to get himself killed. which is why he became a man in the first place according to Philippians 2.
Jesus knew that SOME people would come to believe in him, and that others would not. You're acting like the story ends at Christ's death. But the story actually begins with Christ's resurrection.
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Trust me, rational people understand the design as portrayed in the Garden of Eden story was bad.
I am a rational person.
God didn't tell Adam that by eating the fruit Adam would "condemn all people". He told him, "Do not eat of it, lest you'll die." Obviously Adam and Eve had some knowledge of some things before they ate the fruit. And one of those things they knew was that death probably wasn't a 'good' thing. All they had to do was to say 'no' to the serpent. They believed the serpent's lies instead of their Father's truth.
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Do you have children? Would you leave something dangerous in easy reach, especially with a devious bad guy that you knew, being omniscient, would make Adam and Eve fall?
Yes, I have 4 (adult) children. And while I'm certainly not omniscient, I had those kids with full knowledge that this world is full of dangers. Pedophiles...murderers...rapists...liars...cheater s...scam artists...earthquakes...diseases...possibilities of war...accidents...and the like. I knew enough about the dangers...and chose to have my kidsanyway. Apparently, that makes me a 'bad' person.
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It is not about what you believe, it is about what the Bible actually says.
I just pointed out to you that the Bible doesn't say in Philippians what you claim it says. Either you misread it, or misinterpreted it.
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Sometimes I ask myself how many Christians have actually read the Bible outside of the gospels.
Sometimes I ask myself how in the world some atheists can read the same passage *I* read, and twist the meaning.
The more I read your posts, the more I realize how much you...
Just.
Don't.
Get it.
Be nice if when you (or anyone) decides to post a comment. Like. This. One. You might at least include some explanation...
Like I tried explaining a reply to a post of yours before (#958), and in typical fashion, no real effort or reply on your behalf. In that comment perhaps I should have simply posted; YOU. JUST. DON'T. GET IT.
In any case, if I don't get anything, at least I make an effort to explain why, and ultimately if it's about some of these beliefs that don't really hold muster, I certainly don't disguise or apologize for not getting it! No more than I do when it comes to other claims that are hard if not impossible to establish as truths.
You said, "...there is no virtue in obedience if one has no possible alternative". Hence, when the only alternative to christian obedience is hell...many christians are only being obedient (perhaps I should say sort of obedient) so they don't live their second life in eternal damnation and hellfire.
And in the secular world, the only alternative to obedience to secular law is jail/prison (sometimes even death). I've heard a few non-believers say that they only follow the law so they don't risk incarceration; and not because their actions would be hurtful to someone else.
bold above however = your personal opinions on any of those topics named.
there is no confusion at all. you are expressing your subjective views, your personal opinions, and your own personal individual interpretations.
What do you believe your are explaining here that anyone doesn't know?
I post my comments, thoughts and/or opinions, and I do my best to explain the justification for my conclusions along these lines. Why I think I am right about those comments, thoughts and opinions. For anyone to address or correct in kind if they so choose. In kind or your way instead. Other ways too that far as I'm concerned hardly deserve the effort to make the key strokes.
There is no confusion about how these exchanges in this forum work along these lines I don't think. What is confusing is some of the opinions expressed with hardly justification for them other than simple say so. Confusing from an intelligent, critical thinking standpoint. Typical for this forum however.
Back to the simple recognition that one man's garbage is another man's claim of truth. Is this opinion or truth far as anyone is concerned? What is garbage and what is truth? All depends on who you ask, and this is a truth well proven in this forum on a daily basis too. What's new?
While Philippians 2 does say that Jesus "emptied himself", it does NOT say that he "gave up his power(s)".
Jesus knew that SOME people would come to believe in him, and that others would not. You're acting like the story ends at Christ's death. But the story actually begins with Christ's resurrection.
I am a rational person.
God didn't tell Adam that by eating the fruit Adam would "condemn all people". He told him, "Do not eat of it, lest you'll die." Obviously Adam and Eve had some knowledge of some things before they ate the fruit. And one of those things they knew was that death probably wasn't a 'good' thing. All they had to do was to say 'no' to the serpent. They believed the serpent's lies instead of their Father's truth.
Yes, I have 4 (adult) children. And while I'm certainly not omniscient, I had those kids with full knowledge that this world is full of dangers. Pedophiles...murderers...rapists...liars...cheater s...scam artists...earthquakes...diseases...possibilities of war...accidents...and the like. I knew enough about the dangers...and chose to have my kidsanyway. Apparently, that makes me a 'bad' person.
I just pointed out to you that the Bible doesn't say in Philippians what you claim it says. Either you misread it, or misinterpreted it.
Sometimes I ask myself how in the world some atheists can read the same passage *I* read, and twist the meaning.
Just for the record, are you saying the Adam & Eve story is literal?
And in the secular world, the only alternative to obedience to secular law is jail/prison (sometimes even death). I've heard a few non-believers say that they only follow the law so they don't risk incarceration; and not because their actions would be hurtful to someone else.
Except my focus was about the christian world, but thanks for trying to confuse the situation.
What do you believe your are explaining here that anyone doesn't know?
I post my comments, thoughts and/or opinions, and I do my best to explain the justification for my conclusions along these lines. Why I think I am right about those comments, thoughts and opinions. For anyone to address or correct in kind if they so choose. In kind or your way instead. Other ways too that far as I'm concerned hardly deserve the effort to make the key strokes.
There is no confusion about how these exchanges in this forum work along these lines I don't think. What is confusing is some of the opinions expressed with hardly justification for them other than simple say so. Confusing from an intelligent, critical thinking standpoint. Typical for this forum however.
Back to the simple recognition that one man's garbage is another man's claim of truth. Is this opinion or truth far as anyone is concerned? What is garbage and what is truth? All depends on who you ask, and this is a truth well proven in this forum on a daily basis too. What's new?
I don't get it either. She's saying that it's her opinion that your opinions are your personal opinions. Deep. Very deep.
I haven't made any "claims". I've provided logical, common sense explanations for the alleged "problems" (as you see them) that you've brought up.
As for the bolded, I'm not sure what you're referring to.
I haven't caught up to the end of this thread yet this morning, but if Mystic hasn't already posted his simple thumbs up to jump on this band wagon again like he loves to do, then Mystic probably hasn't caught up to the end of this thread either, but besides that sort of "picking of teams" that goes on here...
Your post is yet another that demonstrates what Tzap also loves to point out, and as such we're left with nothing more than to judge as we will. In this particular case what you call "logical, common sense explanations" (along with some pretty rich rhetoric) versus what others tend to view as the opposite.
Why do we see things so differently? This too is a rather subjective matter, but the truth about those differences is fairly plain to recognize as well.
And in the secular world, the only alternative to obedience to secular law is jail/prison (sometimes even death). I've heard a few non-believers say that they only follow the law so they don't risk incarceration; and not because their actions would be hurtful to someone else.
And there are probably believers that inly folow the law so they do not risk being sent to jail.
And both believers and non believers who really make sure their actions do not harm others. And both believers and non believers who do not care if they harm others as well some of each only care that thdy do not harm those they know and love.
And breaking some laws do not involve harming others.
But my belief is most people if they believe or not wish to do the right think in not harming others. However when a believer tells a non believer rhat if they do X or do not do Y they will go th Hell it does make it appear that punishment in the next world is a real concern or worry for the believer.
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