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mtneer, each generation has gone through this and there are more nonregistered than register, my ancestors are registered on the Dawes Roll, but I refuse to register with any of those rolls, I am my own person and I know who I am and who my ancestors are, I need no piece of paper to tell me that. You can do the same, you know who you are and you know your history and ancestors, be proud of that and don't let anybody tell you anything otherwise, live the good life of a Tsalagi and don't worry about what others say, a piece of paper can't change what's in your blood.
mtneer, each generation has gone through this and there are more nonregistered than register, my ancestors are registered on the Dawes Roll, but I refuse to register with any of those rolls, I am my own person and I know who I am and who my ancestors are, I need no piece of paper to tell me that. You can do the same, you know who you are and you know your history and ancestors, be proud of that and don't let anybody tell you anything otherwise, live the good life of a Tsalagi and don't worry about what others say, a piece of paper can't change what's in your blood.
True words, but I can understand the resistance of those, even Native Americans that question the background of 'non-papered' Native Americans. The reason being that a large chunk of Native American culture is erroded constantly by those claiming that they are spreading 'Native Teaching' when they are no more a Native American than I am. Thus spreading what is in essance a false teaching of a cultural beliefset that is precious and worthy of preservation. The culture is erroded by a group of fantasicts based on some shady relations (e.g. my fifteenth cousin four times removed was a Cherokee) to justify the pretence that they are in fact part of that group.
At times it can seem like every person that's even touched a Native American is suddenly claiming that they are a Native American. I hear people say, "I'm 1/64th Cherokee." then use that as a justification for their 'teachings'.
The point I'm making is, I don't believe you're part Native American. You either are, or you aren't. If you are, then you've lived culturally within that culture and understand the teachings of that culture and live by those teachings and learnings in accordance with the traditions of that specific tribe or group.
Having studied various Native American beliefsets, and spoken to many Native Americans, many of whom have become friends, the fradulant 'teachers' are typically easy to spot, because of their pop culture interpretation, and often largely erroneous representations of the practices of one tribe, or their lack of knowledge of key features of that tribal belief. (That and clearly not being Native American, nor having ever set foot on a reservation) For the uninformed though, many a dollar is wasted sweating with a charleton, with such activities being to the detrement of a group of cultures that are among the oldest on the continent and deserve better than to be the prey of New Age Manchildren with a fetish to feel 'special' or 'different'.
True words, but I can understand the resistance of those, even Native Americans that question the background of 'non-papered' Native Americans. The reason being that a large chunk of Native American culture is erroded constantly by those claiming that they are spreading 'Native Teaching' when they are no more a Native American than I am. Thus spreading what is in essance a false teaching of a cultural beliefset that is precious and worthy of preservation. The culture is erroded by a group of fantasicts based on some shady relations (e.g. my fifteenth cousin four times removed was a Cherokee) to justify the pretence that they are in fact part of that group.
At times it can seem like every person that's even touched a Native American is suddenly claiming that they are a Native American. I hear people say, "I'm 1/64th Cherokee." then use that as a justification for their 'teachings'.
The point I'm making is, I don't believe you're part Native American. You either are, or you aren't. If you are, then you've lived culturally within that culture and understand the teachings of that culture and live by those teachings and learnings in accordance with the traditions of that specific tribe or group.
Having studied various Native American beliefsets, and spoken to many Native Americans, many of whom have become friends, the fradulant 'teachers' are typically easy to spot, because of their pop culture interpretation, and often largely erroneous representations of the practices of one tribe, or their lack of knowledge of key features of that tribal belief. (That and clearly not being Native American, nor having ever set foot on a reservation) For the uninformed though, many a dollar is wasted sweating with a charleton, with such activities being to the detrement of a group of cultures that are among the oldest on the continent and deserve better than to be the prey of New Age Manchildren with a fetish to feel 'special' or 'different'.
Bingo. That is the reason in that so many of us who are enrolled get a little leary of those who are not but claim to be NDN. Unfortunately these wannabe twinkie hacks have really put those non-enrolled persons who sincerely want to learn or live their lives as non-enrolled in a bad position.
I try my best to reserve judgment until I see what a person's action show what they are as my elders taught me, but I admit that I have been guilty of immediately judging people. I do hope that I have acted in a good way toward my non-enrolled brothers and sisters here and behaved in a way that my grandfather would approve. He was a good man with a kind and generous heart. He accepted people for who they were and always reserved judgment. I would not want to dishonor him.
My ancestors are definitelyTsalagi, we have the documentation and some of them are even registered on the Dawes Roll, my great great grandparents, great grandparents, grandparents, and so on, we are even listed on the Rolls for the US Court of Claims among the three lawsuits that was brought against the United States( The Cherokee Nation v. The United States, General-Jurisdiction Case number.Z3199; The Eastern and Emergent Cheroke v. The United States, General-Jurisdiction Case number;23212, The Eastern Cherokees v. The United States, General-Jurisdiction Case number;23214, of which we won all cases, but then again the Federal Gov. Renate on their promises and the court vacated parts of the early decisions. My grandfather left The Boundary at the age of 16 and went into the U.S. Army and was with Gen. Pershing when he went after Poncho Villa in Mexico and was with Gen. Pershing when he was sent to France in World War I, my grandfather was wounded three different times in action and received three purple hearts and the French Croix de Guerre with gilded star and is buried at Arlington National Cemetery, my father, fought the Japanese in World War II in the Pacific, he was a Kwajalein, Tarawa, Wake Island and Guadalcanal, I am a former Navy Seal and did two tours of duty in Vietnam. My great great grandparents and great grandparents were part of the Indian removal, known as the Trail of Tears. I have many cousins and relatives who are full bloods, half blood and even a little less that are eligible to be registered with the Cherokee Nation, some of us do and some of us don't, it is a choice that we make, I do not live on The Boundary nor do I wish to and I do not like the politics and I find it interesting that we are the only race with people that have to prove who we are by carrying a piece of paper that says so, you do not see African-Americans that have to do that nor do you see Irish-Americans, German-Americans, Spanish-Americans, Italian-Americans or any other ethnic group that has to prove who they are by carrying a piece of paper, so why is it that the Native American has to do that. I am proud of my heritage, but I only wish to be treated as equally as every other ethnic group in this country.
BI do hope that I have acted in a good way toward my non-enrolled brothers and sisters here and behaved in a way that my grandfather would approve. He was a good man with a kind and generous heart. He accepted people for who they were and always reserved judgment. I would not want to dishonor him.
Fullback:
As far as I am concerned, you have honored the teachings of your family. Yakoke! (Thank you!)
-- Nighteyes (a non-enrolled, undocumented Mississippi Choctaw)
That's what I've heard from Elders that in the old days it was basically the one drop rule. But I've often felt Natives and especially Tsalagi are regarded much like pedigree dogs where we have to have paperwork to prove what we are. And now even our own people sometimes treat the non-papered people differently like "no you are not allowed to be one of us". It doesn't make sense to me because for example if a person has any degree of African heritage they are regarded as black. But if a person has any degree of Native heritage but is also part white they are regarded as only white. I've had whites angry with me because I honestly say I am Native. They will say well you don't look NDN, but in the very next breath remark how my hair is so straight as a stick and so coarse, how dark my eyes are and how my facial features are not like theirs or how my body build is different. Duh...
yeah i know you cant let it get to you, there are those out there that will do that, your not ndn enough for some yet too much for others. you know who you are and where you come from, just remember that.
Bingo. That is the reason in that so many of us who are enrolled get a little leary of those who are not but claim to be NDN. Unfortunately these wannabe twinkie hacks have really put those non-enrolled persons who sincerely want to learn or live their lives as non-enrolled in a bad position.
I try my best to reserve judgment until I see what a person's action show what they are as my elders taught me, but I admit that I have been guilty of immediately judging people. I do hope that I have acted in a good way toward my non-enrolled brothers and sisters here and behaved in a way that my grandfather would approve. He was a good man with a kind and generous heart. He accepted people for who they were and always reserved judgment. I would not want to dishonor him.
yeah i feel the same way, i just hate how so many claim the cherokee, its so ridiculous and irritating. when someone asks me what tribe i am i will often get- oh me too! or you wanna come to my drum circle? omg
My ancestors are definitelyTsalagi, we have the documentation and some of them are even registered on the Dawes Roll, my great great grandparents, great grandparents, grandparents, and so on, we are even listed on the Rolls for the US Court of Claims among the three lawsuits that was brought against the United States( The Cherokee Nation v. The United States, General-Jurisdiction Case number.Z3199; The Eastern and Emergent Cheroke v. The United States, General-Jurisdiction Case number;23212, The Eastern Cherokees v. The United States, General-Jurisdiction Case number;23214, of which we won all cases, but then again the Federal Gov. Renate on their promises and the court vacated parts of the early decisions. My grandfather left The Boundary at the age of 16 and went into the U.S. Army and was with Gen. Pershing when he went after Poncho Villa in Mexico and was with Gen. Pershing when he was sent to France in World War I, my grandfather was wounded three different times in action and received three purple hearts and the French Croix de Guerre with gilded star and is buried at Arlington National Cemetery, my father, fought the Japanese in World War II in the Pacific, he was a Kwajalein, Tarawa, Wake Island and Guadalcanal, I am a former Navy Seal and did two tours of duty in Vietnam. My great great grandparents and great grandparents were part of the Indian removal, known as the Trail of Tears. I have many cousins and relatives who are full bloods, half blood and even a little less that are eligible to be registered with the Cherokee Nation, some of us do and some of us don't, it is a choice that we make, I do not live on The Boundary nor do I wish to and I do not like the politics and I find it interesting that we are the only race with people that have to prove who we are by carrying a piece of paper that says so, you do not see African-Americans that have to do that nor do you see Irish-Americans, German-Americans, Spanish-Americans, Italian-Americans or any other ethnic group that has to prove who they are by carrying a piece of paper, so why is it that the Native American has to do that. I am proud of my heritage, but I only wish to be treated as equally as every other ethnic group in this country.
Ptsum, my comments weren't to draw disparages on your ancestory or doubt your claim to be Cherokee, or anything of that nature. Just that to the untrained eye, Charletons can be hard to spot, and being a fake Native American spiritual teacher, or just some wannabie cheapening a culture with hollywood style shenanigans that aren't in any way based on actual Cherokee spiritual teachings based on no time actually living within that culture, actually damage that culture to a point, and so I can understand why various people, including Native Americans want to see verification that someone is in fact a Native American, lol.
There are also certain political (however meager) and financial breaks given to certain Native Americans of certain tribes. While this is hardly sufficient payback for the extermination of tens of millions of free people for the sake of creating the USA as we know it today, paperwork is kinda essential for that kind of 'recompense' to be made.
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