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I stated that all human life is meaningless. That must be a terribly unbearable thought to some.
Believing that life has meaning is merely a belief not based on anything.
I don't feel sad about this because I do things. I'm active mentally, my brain functions very well. I value my brain. This is why I reject mumbo-jumbo that can't be proven. Someday I'll die and that's it. Also, I don't want to be resurrected.
Life has no meaning because there is no proof to the contrary.
To the other post; accepting the bible to be true does not make it true. The proof is missing. This is where religion falters. Nothing can be adequately explained. The biblical "mumbo-jumbo" tries to hide the fact that proof is missing.
Again, you're missing the point that this is a strawman argument. I respect your right to believe it, I really do. But where is your proof that the Bible ISN'T true or that God doesn't exist? You say nothing can be adequately explained, but that includes your views, as there is no proof for those either. Where is your proof that life has NO meaning? You neglected to answer this before.
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How much intellectual activity is required to shout, "Glory, hallelujah, it's all true"? Hardly any brainwork involved. Small wonder that believers disregard their brain and believe the heart has eyes, ears, probably antennas, and various other things. I still wonder why god doesn't speak to the liver, or kidneys, or the big toe. Maybe the liver has eyes and ears as well.
Why is it so hard for non-believers to get through a single post without insulting Christians or their beliefs? Ask all the questions you want and present your side and beliefs and I'll listen. But when the insults keep flying, it's just mocking and uncalled for.
The mocking you do towards God and Christianity is hypocritical because you accuse Christians and God of doing the same thing to people of other beliefs. You do what you accuse Christians of doing and you can't even see it. That's blindness.
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I value my brain.
Then try using it to answer the question I asked you earlier. Where is your proof that life has NO meaning?
If a consistent strawman argument is to be applauded, then clap away.
He isn't the one with the "strawman". I don't agree with everything he says but I admire that he's intellectually honest and dosen't contradict himself.
This has given me a great idea for another thread which I can really use.
I isn't me that has said the heart has eyes, that one should listen to his heart (so it probably has ears as well). If you're a christian you must have heard these things hundred of times.
I still keep wondering why god doesn't speak to the bladder?
Many of my projects in art and writing involve satire. That's my next thread. I'll stop with this merry-go-round.
Give my regards to all in La-la land.
He isn't the one with the "strawman". I don't agree with everything he says but I admire that he's intellectually honest and dosen't contradict himself.
I can see that. He is honest about what he believes, which says a lot for him. I respect that. The thing about constantly saying "where's your proof" when you don't offer any for your own beliefs though is one type of a strawman argument though.
Yes but the stories that man tells can, and through history one day we will
My point is "man" can tell whatever stories "man" may want to tell. There are many different religions and many people believe different things.
Some folks seem to believe that if a person is a non-believer they need to have their head hacked off.
I believe if a person does not believe as I do, that is up to them. But, when they want to hack my head off because I believe different than they do, then I have a bit of a problem.
When someone asks for proof, that's a tough one to prove.
It is what an individual believes in.
I like the part of Fido and Fluffy landing in the yard.
It's not the first time I've heart that the heart has eyes, or ears, that one should see or hear with the heart. I work on many art projects. One cartoon I've drawn deals with this theme of the heart.
The existence or not of god means everything. If I wanted to learn a computer program I would appreciate a manual that states things specifically without any vagueness or metaphors. That means taking it literally. Same could be said for textbooks of any kind, geology, astronomy, medicine, law, ect. Anything instructional should be stated clearly, exactly, and briefly.
It's fine that poets and songwriters use metaphors, but anything that is super important should be clearly stated, otherwise it leads to confusion. How would you like to have a kitchen fire, grab the extinguisher to read the instructions, and discover you have to decipher the metaphors?
I like philosophy written by philosophers, because most of them make statements and then explain them as clearly as possible.
For me thinking out of the box is to be open to everything without wanting to see or hear something I've been told to see or hear as the objective. If I was to seek god as an objective my mind would not be open, but narrowed and confined, and possibly desperate enough to "see" or "hear" something that does not exist; emotional satisfaction triumphs over the intellect.
Visvaldis: This is, I think, an interesting reply, as I believe that it offers some insight lacking in other posts, and also suggests why answering the original question is a little bit like herding cats (sorry for the metaphor). Nebulous' initial challenge is, well, a little nebulous, as it neither defines what God he is referencing nor did it mention any criteria that he would accept as proof.
Your response makes it somewhat easier to discern what kind of information you seem to be requesting, though it might be appropriate to point out what is probably obvious to most: whether we (collectively) like it or not, there are multiple methods by which people embrace their world view, (or come to know God), and as a result, it is almost as if we are speaking different languages. Not everyone, I am sure you realize, has the same standard of proof for this issue as you. People make life choices in a variety of ways (all of which, I believe, can lead to God):through propositional truth, relationally, experientially, through hope or desperation, from a desire for transendency, through intensive investigation (perhaps you fall in this category), through trial and error, through tradition or serendipity. You seem to believe in objective reality. Is the truth of the matter any different for the one investigating and discovering it, the student who reads about it, or someone else who stumbles upon it? Still, I realize that this does not answer your question, because you have not seen ample proof to your liking.
You also affirm a belief in the immaterial (you mentioned love, for instance, cannot be measured), so I know that you understand that there are some innate difficulties associated with proving the unseen. By definition, spiritual (and the Christian God is spirit) refers to that which is not tangible. This is, after all, in many respects a pretty difficult concept to apprehend, and harder for some (like me), than others. That is why I think there are so many Scriptural references relating the spiritual to the temporal. The kingdom of God is like... is like what? i can't see it, for crying out loud. It's like a mustard seed, a lost valuable, the wind. Since the unseen is difficult to grasp, Christians would argue that the use of metaphors is one method that God uses to convey truth about that which is invisible; that is, by comparing the unseen to that which one can touch, taste, feel and relate to. Further adding to the difficulty is the fact that these metaphors have to make sense, and appeal to, different cultures across muti-generational lines. A simple manual, it seems to me, wouldn't work (by the way, I liked your fire extinguisher story, but the fact that you used an example like this suggests that perhaps sometimes stories work quite well). You can see some of the problems associated in attempting to clearly communicate ideas by simply reading this thread (including my own convoluted entry). I am sure that you also realize that the Bible contains history, poetry, doctrinal statements, stories, letters of friendship and correction, imagery and other literary devices. Some of it is pretty easy to understand; other portions are, of course, much more challenging. Purposefully, perhaps (are we really interested in what He is attempting to convey?).
Additionally, if it is the Christian God one seeks to understand, it seems sensible to determine what He claims constitutes evidence of His existence. You or I may desire a particular kind of proof, but what emerges for me from the Scriptural record instead is a simple request to examine the evidence that He does provide and then decide. Don't agree with what the existence of the cosmos implies about Him? Choose differently. Unconvinced about who Jesus is, what He did or what He taught? No way to become a Christian, then. Impossible to believe its life truths, unsure that the Resurrection is real and changes lives, or can't believe the Bible's variety of historical accounts, nor perceive the need for spiritual reconciliation? Then you and I have come to different conclusions. Nothing particularly new here, but with that being said, perhaps you could add additional clarification regarding the essence of the proof that might impact you.
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