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what is your specific evidence that music is not just noise?
what is your specific evidence that art is not just scribbling?
a bulleted list would be good. where is the credible evidence.
questions for anyone, looking forward to your answers.
well, many fundy think type atheist will avoid this question.
List the properties of what we call music/art and noise/scribbling. Weighted average needs to be incorporated. I play the "best song ever" at 200 db's and it won't be the best song ever anymore.
Compare an "unknown sound" / "Unknown drawling" to that list.
The real question is
"Why shouldn't we "connect the dots" to the best of our ability when forming a belief?"
or
Should "science" be used for social change when it supports one side and should be ignored *(shunned) when it doesn't meet that agenda?"
Lets see the fundy think type atheist answer them.
well, many fundy think type atheist will avoid this question.
List the properties of what we call music/art and noise/scribbling. Weighted average needs to be incorporated. I play the "best song ever" at 200 db's and it won't be the best song ever anymore.
Compare an "unknown sound" / "Unknown drawling" to that list.
The real question is
"Why shouldn't we "connect the dots" to the best of our ability when forming a belief?"
or
Should "science" be used for social change when it supports one side and should be ignored *(shunned) when it doesn't meet that agenda?"
Lets see the fundy think type atheist answer them.
What is music or art cannot be described in words because there is nothing to compare it to, which is how we explain our world. What is Divinity also cannot be describe in words because there is nothing to compare it to.
What is music or art cannot be described in words because there is nothing to compare it to, which is how we explain our world. What is Divinity also cannot be describe in words because there is nothing to compare it to.
Really? There are tomes of books that describe works of art and art schools. Same for music.
Thank you for responding.
You have answered the first part about how you would explain to someone what music is, through definition and examples and demonstration. that covers the first part of the question, shown in bold below.
However it does not answer the second part of the question, which is how do you explain and prove to them what differentiates music from just a bunch of noise.
Because you play the samples of music, and after each song or record you play, the person says "That's just noise." And after you play at your keyboard, the person says "That's just noise" and he goes over and bangs on the keyboard which he just saw you do. Fingers pushing keys making noise. There is a violin in the room and he drags the bow across the strings in systematic manner. and he says "That's just noise."
I look forward to reading your answer and response (from anyone) to the second part of the question, bold below:
Okay, thanks for considering the further clarification or answer. Hope this helps or does better...
Simple actually. I would tell anyone after hearing a piece of music, it's up to them whether they like it or not. Music and art appreciation is a subjective matter, and no two people will feel the same way about what they hear or see. Like my parents heard nothing but "noise" when I was playing my first rock-and-roll albums. (True story).
Again, none of this subjectivity should be confused with questions about objective truth. Even though we might disagree about what we feel about subjective matters, like art, there is no question about the fact that music exists. Art exists. These are objective truths, regardless our feelings about these truths. At a minimum we can recognize and agree they exist. Are true.
Very much unlike other claims commonly made in this thread that can in no way be verified, confirmed or proven in the same ways. This is why I will once again make the point that I am not the one making such claims. Nothing I point out to be true or exist, like music, art, our heartbeat and/or our parent's opinion about music is anything we can't all accept and agree upon with little argument or disagreement.
All I'm ever doing here is making this distinction between our universal truths, for the most part easily recognized and accepted, vs what are otherwise personal versions or claims that can't be verified as fact or truth in any similar manner.
What is music or art cannot be described in words because there is nothing to compare it to, which is how we explain our world. What is Divinity also cannot be describe in words because there is nothing to compare it to.
I so very much disagree...
Though a good part of what you explain is true. Some things are hard to explain or describe to others in a way that perfectly conveys how we feel about those things, there is a BIG difference between the reality of music or art as compared to claims about divinity.
We can all go to a concert and bare witness to music, or go to a museum and bare witness to art, but we can't all go anywhere and similarly bare witness to notions about divinity. Much art has been an attempt to put the divine on canvas, or in cathedrals, and this too we can all easily bare witness to exist. Those are all just representations of personal notions about what is divine. There's nowhere we can all go and bare witness to any similar evidence or proof that anything divine exists. Like we can at a concert or at a museum. No one comes out of a concert arguing whether they actually heard music or not. No one leaves a museum arguing whether they actually saw art of not.
It's simply not reasonable or logical to mix these "apples and oranges" when it comes to comparing the real world with other personal notions or claims about divinity or what exists outside our real world. This is why there has always been so much controversy and disagreement about what is divine going back to the beginning. Unlike how we all easily recognize and accept that Elvis Presley existed.
With all due respect to all the folks who have seen Elvis around even after he died...
Really? There are tomes of books that describe works of art and art schools. Same for music.
Those books describe the works AS music or art...not what makes them "music" or "art", as compared to just noise or scribbling.
Some people do think various works that are presented as music/art are just noises/scribbling (avant-garde jazz, abstract paintings, etc)...while others see it as the pinnacle of artistic works. Why?
You know the answer why. ***PERCEPTION***
Perception indelibly imbues that which is beheld with the designation based upon the discernment and sagacity of those perceiving it as they do.
And a differing view of it by others does nothing to nullify that designation already instilled by said perception.
Those books describe the works AS music or art...not what makes them "music " or "art", as compared to just noise or scribbling.
Some people do think various works that are presented as music/art are just noises/scribbling (avant-garde jazz, abstract paintings, etc)...while others see it as the pinnacle of artistic works. Why?
You know the answer why. ***PERCEPTION***
Perception indelibly imbues that which is beheld with the designation based upon the discernment and sagacity of those perceiving it as they do.
And a differing view of it by others does nothing to nullify that designation already instilled by said perception.
The very fact that tomes of writing to describe art exists is testimony that art cannot be explained in words easily. Western art completely ignores one half of humanity and its art in its definition. How can this be truth?
The very fact that tomes of writing to describe art exists is testimony that art cannot be explained in words easily. Western art completely ignores one half of humanity and its art in its definition. How can this be truth?
What a dishonest post.
In your earlier post you said, "What is music or art cannot be described in words..." Now you've changed it to "cannot be explained in words easily".
It may be the need to better or further clarify prior comments is not necessarily dishonesty...
Because otherwise, I could easily be considered the most dishonest person posting in this forum!
It's too abrupt of a change. 'Cannot' is one thing, 'cannot easily' is something very different, particularly in the context of her rebuttal.
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