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The negative connection has to do with some people believing that a god provided rules or laws for everyone to follow. Since atheists don't believe in a god, to these people, it must mean a lack of adherence to those rules (or laws). In general, being disobedient is not a good look as demonstrated by those who are not atheists.
It is absolutely true that SOMETHING provided laws that govern our entire existence and everything that happens within it. The pretense that it cannot be God because we don't know what it IS (and we DO NOT KNOW) simply makes atheism your preference without establishing WHAT the lawgiver IS.
I think you misread my post. I have no great issue with the FAQ (although I think anyone would have to agree it's written from a pro-atheist perspective and puts a distinctly happy face on atheism, which is fair enough since it is the A&A forum). What I was highlighting was the disconnect between the FAQ and the posturing by atheists on these forums that is contrary to the FAQ. My two points were simply:
1. The FAQ repeatedly uses phraseology such as "atheists believe" because atheism is, in fact, a belief system - yet the game here is to insist that no, you can't pin down atheists because they don't affirmatively believe anything; they merely "lack belief" in what you believe.
Believing something does not exist does not make it a believe systems, a term normally used for positive believes that are actually a system.
These are the kinds of statements that undercut the atheist position.
No, they are how people normally think. You have the extraordinary claims but can not back them up. We see how the world works. We have the evidence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irkle Berserkle
Billions of sane and intelligent people, including many of the greatest scientific and academic minds of the past and present, have believed that a god sending his son to die for our sins is indeed the best description of reality. These billions of people have not dumped their commonsense and reason. Nobel laureates, scientists who publish in peer-reviewed journals, university professors, world-class philosophers, and all other species of sane and intelligent people don't suddenly and inexplicably lose their ability to think and reason when considering theistic claims about reality.
Not this argument ad populum again. Did these intelligent people use their intelligence to question their belief, and more important, were their arguments valid? Why do you not address their actual arguments instead of relying on your usual fallacies? Is it because you know their arguments are not good?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irkle Berserkle
(I am not appealing to authority. If I were saying these billions of people show or even suggest Christianity must be true, that would be an appeal to authority. I am merely highlighting the absurdity of what you are saying - i.e., that these billions lose their ability to think and reason when considering theistic claims, but internet atheists such as yourself are somehow immune.)
Because I do have these billions in my corner, I could just as easily and more plausibly say that the tiny percentage of genuine atheists shows that those who fail to see the validity of the Christian explanation of reality have dumped their commonsense and reason. But I don't say this because it would be equally absurd; plenty of sane and intelligent people have been atheists.
This characterization of Christians and other religious believers as irrational, delusional, unscientific and generally out-of-touch with reality is so patently false that it only serves to underscore the weakness of the atheist position. It's little more than a broad-scale ad hominem fallacy.
Pointing out you have no evidence for miracles is not an ad hominem (unlike your posts).
we are all using it to mean "lack of belief". Then we are all applying it various atheist.
The real problem is what we are calling god and people having other motives than just defining the word. I say that because this is stupid simple. Atheist has a definition. And people are using "atheism" diferently.
Look at me and you. I am atheist by definition. You are an atheist by definition.
You call me out for questioning atheist beliefs, as hard as I do theist, and make it sound like I am questioning atheism. and that I am more irreligious. You are not applying the definition to me.
so how do we account for that difference? when sticking to the definition?
I don't do that, that I am aware. Rather, I appeal to you to stop attacking and traducing your fellow -atheists (as in fact you are doing here) just because you disapprove of the campaign to change society. We know what you are doing Arach, and why .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes
No, they are how people normally think. You have the extraordinary claims but can not back them up. We see how the world works. We have the evidence.
Not this argument ad populum again. Did these intelligent people use their intelligence to question their belief, and more important, were their arguments valid? Why do you not address their actual arguments instead of relying on your usual fallacies? Is it because you know their arguments are not good?
Pointing out you have no evidence for miracles is not an ad hominem (unlike your posts).
It was probably inevitable that a thread on defining atheism became a thread on attacking, misrepresenting and attempting to debunk atheism.,
Maybe I agreed to more than I should have. I appreciate the concern.
Atheism literally means one without god. That is the meaning I go by. People claim atheism is a religion, so I used a source that provided possible sources of the word. I went by those denotations.
People who claim atheism is a religion are using it to insult atheism, ironically insulting religious belief in a god or gods. It is amusing when theists do this, it is like attacking someone by hitting yourself on the head with a stick.
I don't do that, that I am aware. Rather, I appeal to you to stop attacking and traducing your fellow -atheists (as in fact you are doing here) just because you disapprove of the campaign to change society. We know what you are doing Arach, and why .
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so look at how you answered ..
Rather, I appeal to you to stop attacking and traducing your fellow -atheists (as in fact you are doing here) just because you disapprove of the campaign to change society.
You see how we differ and we are both atheist.
atheist, as per trans, logically evaluate claims based on logic and reason.
Maybe I agreed to more than I should have. I appreciate the concern.
Atheism literally means one without god. That is the meaning I go by. People claim atheism is a religion, so I used a source that provided possible sources of the word. I went by those denotations.
The other thing is that some atheist activism seems like "jesus saves" in that it will ignore anything that slows down the anti-religion movement.
The movement is put before observations, reason, and commonsense when just talking about reality here at CD. Thats why we say it looks like a religion. That what we see religious people doing all the time.
I think the definition hinges on what god is. The anti-religous activist need us to be limited on our focus. Just talking about observations that rationally support some spiritual sentiments is seem and a death roll to me. I really don't understand that part.
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