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I think that you ought to stop pretending that you are the expert on virtually every culture that people talk about in this forum. For example, I've corrected you repeatedly when you have clearly suggested that the path of Buddhism is ultimately the same for Buddhism an christianity, when that is not true at all. One belief system has a creator god, the other does not. If you are expert on christianity, Buddhism, now indigenous cultures, and other cultures, please do share with us where you obtained that expertise. Woo is not expertise.
"woo" is not grown up vocabulary.
and precludes any semblance of rational discussion.
"Intelligent design (ID) is a pseudoscientific argument for the existence of God, presented by its proponents as "an evidence-based scientific theory about life's origins".[1][2][3][4][5] Proponents claim that "certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection."[6] ID is a form of creationism that lacks empirical support and offers no testable or tenable hypotheses, and is therefore not science.[7][8][9] The leading proponents of ID are associated with the Discovery Institute, a Christian, politically conservative think tank based in the United States.[n 1]" (note references, something you don't supply). From Wikipedia.
… the point is that some concepts, labels, symbols become so intertwined with a certain use or meaning, they are no longer free for use for whatever else someone might choose.
“Intelligent Design” was co-opted (if not coined from the outset) in an attempt to slip creationism into school curricula. That is well established, and defeated in the courts and in the public arena. Like it or not, that’s the first (and last) thing many people are going to think of, when they see the term.
I have problem agreeing with all that. I will elaborate on your example with the same caveat that it is not perfect.
The swastika has not lost it is true meaning in a places where it originated. Indians, even non-Hindus, know what it means and they are still used in daily life. They would not even recognize the Nazi symbol as the swastika of benevolence and health as the word Swasti means, because it is inverted and has no context.
The reason I am saying this is while CD is American, we are all also global citizens. One cannot have an intelligent dialog if we so narrowly view our world, words and concepts. Well, one can, but you also loose so much. That matters if you truly strive to understand your world.
Words always have an inherent meaning and etymology. They dont lose it just because some other emotions are attached to them, such as your words that I have bolded indicate. It may be natural to do that but not if you are interested in an honest understanding. So you can choose - honest dialog or emotionally charged circus. The second is always easy.
"woo" is not grown up vocabulary.
and precludes any semblance of rational discussion.
I really don't care if you like the term. You know precisely what I am talking about. That's effective language, whether it's in the dictionary or not.
I really don't care if you like the term. You know precisely what I am talking about. That's effective language, whether it's in the dictionary or not.
effective at expressing disdain and contempt.
mocking and derision also preclude intelligent discussion.
Interesting. No one is questioning your assertion about the Greeks and modern Western culture. The fact is we do not know what some previous ancient cultures or civilizations did or did not know along those lines but the existence of inexplicably built structures does suggest the nascent methodologies that Gldn hints at.
It is a worthwhile endevour to investigate the technologies and mehodologies of the past. I dobt see anyone ever having a reason to oppise that.reason i bring Fell up problwm us that too many are willing to invent fron thin air how thw ancients musy of done it or who taught then it. There is even a whole sun dicipline calkec Fantastic Archeaology that is devoted into investigating these claims.
Rhe othed oeoblem is that too often a persob takez it upin themself to comd up with explations of how the ancients did somethinh but they are investigating an area outside of any expertise.
One examoke was Barry Fell a New Zealand maribe bioligists qho wrote severe boojk about how the Mededtierran and othed manly Europeans broyght all of the techbology that Nativs Americans used ovsr wirh them.
The reason i brought Fell up is in America B C he claims that the pictigraphs of Big Horn Sheep at Writing on Stone proved that Europieans brought the licals the wool industy and the First Natiios people on the Plaibs had a blooming wool industey.
I live about 1_hour frim Writing on Stone PP and visited those cliffs many times. I have also seen Big Horn sheep up close plus mounted examples of those beautuful animals. However Fell didnt know that they dont have wool whi h makez the wool industry pointless.
We need to be very careful in assigning other peoples ir technologies upon thecworks of ling gone civiliations. Those using tree trybks ib attempts to see if the megaliths could havevbeen moved and erected this way are the obes ob the right path of discovery. Those that claim aliens built the Pyramids are not.I
Yes there are many ancient mysteries and i think some may always remain so. Better toremain a mystery than explained by sonwthing just made up.
Even the Greeks did not have our modern scientific method. Not having the scientific method does not mean not having any science or math or rational thinking.
The Greeks relied mostly on philosphy and observation. This is not putting them down or insulting them but describing somw historical facts. Two Greeks came up wit opposing views of the Solar System, one geocentric and the other heliocentric. If the scientific method had already wxistef then each of those schools would have found ways to test which was correct and as a result a future Pope would not have decided that he liked the wrong one and we would not be taught about Galilee and his fight with the church.
The Greeks first classified the different sciences, and then developed the basics that would become our modern method. The discovered many things that would then be lost for over 1000 years. I was going to post a list for Transponder, but the amount of work required to do this stopped me.
Biology, astronomy, physics, chemistry, anatomy, most of it lost for over 1000 years simply because it was not copied.
Some Greeks were also scientific creationists, but we now know none of their arguments are valid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander
By thevway not all ancient Chineese medicines whwn tested are effective for what they claim. No need for a woman to buy rhino horn powder for her husband as i believe it was tested and did not work as claimed. The adverse affect of using rhinopowder is dead rhinos.
And i dont reject all ancient medicines as i find acupunture effective in ending the result of a problem. But that does notbmean that the Ancient Chineese and indigious people had knowledge or used the scientific method. It simply had not been developed by that time and obsevations and trial and error may be portions of the scientific mehod they are only pirtions of it. It is not a insult to claim that.
The first medical tract I know of came from Egypt, but this probably came from experience rather than experiments. They were practical people, and I would like to know how many of them believed their creation myths.
I have problem agreeing with all that. I will elaborate on your example with the same caveat that it is not perfect.
The swastika has not lost it is true meaning in a places where it originated. Indians, even non-Hindus, know what it means and they are still used in daily life. They would not even recognize the Nazi symbol as the swastika of benevolence and health as the word Swasti means, because it is inverted and has no context.
The reason I am saying this is while CD is American, we are all also global citizens. One cannot have an intelligent dialog if we so narrowly view our world, words and concepts. Well, one can, but you also loose so much. That matters if you truly strive to understand your world.
Words always have an inherent meaning and etymology. They dont lose it just because some other emotions are attached to them, such as your words that I have bolded indicate. It may be natural to do that but not if you are interested in an honest understanding. So you can choose - honest dialog or emotionally charged circus. The second is always easy.
Even though i had been fully aware that the Nazis stole that symbol i am also fully aware that the symbol is associated with them by far ovsr 99% of the people i will ever be in contact with. Hence if i see the Swasti flying in Alberta it is only that meaning i need to know. The person flying that flag in my country is sending the message that they think killing all of my relatives was a good idea. I should not need to accept that message here because in a different form in a different country it means sonething else.
Language is about communicating with others. I did not see you use the etmology of any other word than swastika in your post, apparently you assumed we all knew the meanings of all those other words. If my family had been living in Germany during the war they most likely would have been gassed. Is that not importand too to fight the spread of a message of hate here or do we ignorecit because someone ib a different country or culture has a different attachment to that symbol.
Or is the Nazis biggest offence the stealing of that symbol and the Halocaust is unimportant?
The Greeks first classified the different sciences, and then developed the basics that would become our modern method. The discovered many things that would then be lost for over 1000 years. I was going to post a list for Transponder, but the amount of work required to do this stopped me.
Biology, astronomy, physics, chemistry, anatomy, most of it lost for over 1000 years simply because it was not copied.
Some Greeks were also scientific creationists, but we now know none of their arguments are valid.
The first medical tract I know of came from Egypt, but this probably came from experience rather than experiments. They were practical people, and I would like to know how many of them believed their creation myths.
Harry i agree wifh all you said. A lot more could have been lost if notfor the Arabs or Muslims.
But did they have and use the scientific method or did their work just become most of the foundation for it? From what i have read it was the latter. I would hate to think of qhere we would be today if not for the contributions of mostly the Greeks and those who did save thsir work. And wonder on what remains still lost.
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