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Non-living cell walls form automatically because of chemistry. Exergonic chemical reactions (responsible for energy release in every living cell) exists automatically outside of life. Replication occurs naturally outside of life forms.
Harry may not know the fine details about how life began, but Harry KNOWS the processes found in every living entity occur naturally.
You can deny (avoid) the science and beg the question as much as you want, but these automatic chemical reactions do exist.
The science behind them can be explained in the science forum.
I'm asking for the info YOU claimed that YOU had about creation (the thread topic)...so, if my request is "off topic", your claim necessarily was.
AGAIN...present that "very, very simple explanation" on the origins of the creation causal chain that you claimed to possess.
No, that was not my claim. My response was to Mystics claim X, not the OP claim Y. That is how conversations work.
And just because X has a "very, very simple explanation" does not mean Y does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule
Unless, you really can't...then, of course, you won't.
Lol, still trying to control the conversation.
Post 650 of this thread. So the answers to the problem of knowledge is ...?
Come on, instead of just telling us we are wrong, provide this ONE example of an intelligence without a brain. Not assert it does exist, provide one observation, or explain how it would function.
Hmm yeah, those darn larger more complex systems. They are so irritating.
How have you measured this complexity? At what level are you measuring this complexity? And if complex entities must be created by even more complex entities, then you have the problem of infinitely increasing complex entities.
On what basis do you claim that it can? And please don't say you know it can because experts say it can.
Complex machinery does not get built by chance, no matter how long you wait. And no, natural selection is not a super power that can accomplish miracles.
But complexity can increase, our universe is an example of that. Elements like oxygen did not exist until the first stars went nova.
Instead of just denying the science, you need to provide a better mechanism with evidence to support your argument. Until you do that, you have nothing. Or as you say, NOTHING.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin
But a living conscious universe would naturally generate the complex machinery of life. And no, this complex machinery does not function automatically and mechanically once it is created. It is a constant and continual expression of the living conscious universe.
So what living thing created our living universe. And what living thing created THAT living force? And so on, ad infinitum?
And how does this living universe just know things? How does it store it's knowledge? How does it manipulate the genetic code? These are questions your opinion raises, and so far I have not heard a rational answer for this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin
The evolution by chance and selection idea is a dead end mistake. It has neither scientific evidence nor logic nor common sense to support it.
So you keep asserting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin
The defense is always that experiments can't be done to demonstrate something that takes eons to occur. Experiments and observations showing minor changes in species have been done. But that has nothing to do with the evolution of complex machinery.
Because walking to the refrigerator for a beer means you could never walk from New York to Los Angeles.
We have no reason whatsoever to think it can. Many biologists say it can, but that is only because that's what they learned in school. Most people are not interested in questioning authorities.
How do you know this? You can not, therefore you are just inventing excuses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin
So we have no reason to think it's true. And we can think about it and see how profoundly unlikely it is to be true.
Because these PhD biologists do not think about their own work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin
And we can become aware of alternate theories that make more sense. Such as a conscious living universe that can't help creating life, because it is alive.
Perhaps if you thought about your own position. I have, and asked the questions it raised. And I still get no rational answers, just excuses that ironically refute your position
Instead of denying that chemistry exists, you need to find a better definition of life, one that says life is not chemistry. And instead of just asserting this, you need to provide evidence for your claims.
Deny that chemistry exists?? What??
And how can anyone say that life IS chemistry? Isn't it also physics? Isn't it also biology?
No evidence is needed for denying that life IS chemistry.
But there are also energies and fields involved in life that physics, chemistry and biology do not yet understand.
Non-living cell walls form automatically because of chemistry. Exergonic chemical reactions (responsible for energy release in every living cell) exists automatically outside of life. Replication occurs naturally outside of life forms.
Harry may not know the fine details about how life began, but Harry KNOWS the processes found in every living entity occur naturally.
You can deny (avoid) the science and beg the question as much as you want, but these automatic chemical reactions do exist.
The science behind them can be explained in the science forum.
No you can't explain life in the science forum. If life were understood, it would be possible to create life. It is not.
How have you measured this complexity? At what level are you measuring this complexity? And if complex entities must be created by even more complex entities, then you have the problem of infinitely increasing complex entities.
Do you people even think about your assertions?
That's what David Bohm described -- lower levels successively unfolding from higher levels, on up to infinity.
But complexity can increase, our universe is an example of that. Elements like oxygen did not exist until the first stars went nova.
Instead of just denying the science, you need to provide a better mechanism with evidence to support your argument. Until you do that, you have nothing. Or as you say, NOTHING.
Why do you think I said complexity can't increase? That is the opposite of what I said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes
So what living thing created our living universe. And what living thing created THAT living force? And so on, ad infinitum?
And how does this living universe just know things? How does it store it's knowledge? How does it manipulate the genetic code? These are questions your opinion raises, and so far I have not heard a rational answer for this.
So you keep asserting.
Because walking to the refrigerator for a beer means you could never walk from New York to Los Angeles.
We have been saying that the universe is conscious and alive. We don't know how it stores its knowledge. How does anything stores its knowledge? We never said the conscious universe manipulates the genetic code, and we told you already that we never said that.
No, that was not my claim. My response was to Mystics claim X, not the OP claim Y. That is how conversations work.
And just because X has a "very, very simple explanation" does not mean Y does.
Lol, still trying to control the conversation.
Post 650 of this thread. So the answers to the problem of knowledge is ...?
Come on, instead of just telling us we are wrong, provide this ONE example of an intelligence without a brain. Not assert it does exist, provide one observation, or explain how it would function.
Of course it was in response to Mystic...I even quoted his post in my response to you. You said the causal chain had a "very, very simple explanation"...so, I asked for it.
The word ONE you use is apropos. Oneness. Thus...it doesn't just "possess an intelligence", it IS Intellect...and anything & everything else.
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