Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
But I SAID natural selection is true! How many times can I say it before it sinks in? Natural selection is true, Natural selection is true, Natural selection is true, Natural selection is true, Natural selection is true.
But NO ONE has evidence that random variations and natural selection can account for the evolution of increasingly complex organisms.
And by the way, there already is evidence that mutation rates can increase in response to environmental pressures.
So here's your basic position:
Science has no proof.
Religious beliefs are proof.
Natural selection can act on variations to cause changes in the species. That does NOT mean it explains the evolution of increasingly complex organs and organisms.
I am saying that you do NOT have an explanation. I am not saying that I do have an explanation. Some things, most things, are not understood. When we don't know we can admit we don't know, instead of clinging to irrational unscientific pseudo-explanations.
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,852 posts, read 10,458,803 times
Reputation: 6670
While machines have an obvious 'goal', still unclear what evidence of a 'Goal', if any, the Universe has... it's simply 'THERE'! And any 'interpretations', even including all our values and 'morals' for that matter, IMHO are ultimately whatever 'We' as a species decide on (slavery, misogyny, capital punishment, 'socialism', whatever we 'choose'...)... rather than imposed by some dubious 'Divinity'. Which may, or may not exist, though 'His' potential non-involvement does place more of the 'responsibility' on us.
So if it wouldn't be too off-topic, would be interested to hear how some Believers might 'explain' the many 'branches' of humanity's own diverse 'roots' ... with new evidence everyday. In fact just before Covid started, a friend returned from visiting the Rising Star Caves in S. Africa, site of another recently discovered 'relative', Homo Naledi.... nearly 3 Million years ago! In other words, do Neanderthals and Homo Habilis 'count', and "will the real 'humans’ please stand up?!" ;-p
Science has no proof.
Religious beliefs are proof.
How convenient.
I said NOTHING about religious beliefs. Never said I had any religious beliefs. I said the universe seems to be conscious and alive. There is nothing unscientific about that.
While machines have an obvious 'goal', still unclear what evidence of a 'Goal', if any, the Universe has... it's simply 'THERE'! And any 'interpretations', even including all our values and 'morals' for that matter, IMHO are ultimately whatever 'We' as a species decide on... rather than some dubious 'Divinity'. Which may, or may not exist, though 'His' potential non-involvement does place more of the 'responsibility' on us.
So if it wouldn't be too off-topic, would be interested to hear how some Believers might 'explain' the many 'branches' of humanity's own diverse 'roots' ... with new evidence everyday. In fact just before Covid started, a friend returned from visiting the Rising Star Caves in S. Africa, site of another recently discovered 'relative', Homo Naledi.... nearly 3 Million years ago! "And will the real 'humans’ please stand up?!" ;-p
If you read the OP or any of my comments, you would know that I BELIEVE IN EVOLUTION. And so does just about everyone else in this thread. So WHY are you arguing for evolution?
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,852 posts, read 10,458,803 times
Reputation: 6670
Well, considering how much 'effort' we've put into arguing over 'evolution', perhaps some of us are still awaiting the Believer 'evidence' (at least beyond simply saying, "Cuz I believe it's so")? And cranky 'indignation' whenever asked, ain't no 'substitute' either.
I said NOTHING about religious beliefs. Never said I had any religious beliefs. I said the universe seems to be conscious and alive. There is nothing unscientific about that.
There is so much in the universe that is not alive, that I don't see that as a reasonable statement.
The notion that random chance is an explanation is where the wheel falls off the cart! Random chance explains nothing! It is the ultimate expression of our ignorance and inability to explain the causal chain so we try to estimate an occurrence frequency and pattern and pretend that explains it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes
The very very simple explanation can be given in the science forum. You may not understand the explanation, but others can learn from your ignorance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule
Of course it was in response to Mystic...I even quoted his post in my response to you. You said the causal chain had a "very, very simple explanation"...so, I asked for it.
The word ONE you use is apropos. Oneness. Thus...it doesn't just "possess an intelligence", it IS Intellect...and anything & everything else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes
No I did not make that claim. Stop lying about this.
There it is ^^^ bolded above.
What Mystic said to G4N...and your response to that.
YOU are lying.
So...AGAIN: Do you have that "very, very simple explanation", or not?
If you read the OP or any of my comments, you would know that I BELIEVE IN EVOLUTION. And so does just about everyone else in this thread. So WHY are you arguing for evolution?
I would say that you believe in YOUR version of evolution.
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,852 posts, read 10,458,803 times
Reputation: 6670
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
There is so much in the universe that is not alive, that I don't see that as a reasonable statement.
Perhaps, but got any examples, particularly ones that don't rely on the pre-Copernican assumption that 'we' represent the Center of the Universe? BTW, am personally of the agnostic persuasion... pending any 'evidence' either way.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The notion that random chance is an explanation is where the wheel falls off the cart! Random chance explains nothing! It is the ultimate expression of our ignorance and inability to explain the causal chain so we try to estimate an occurrence frequency and pattern and pretend that explains it.