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Mystic's belief in god is really spacetime exchanging information via the mechanisms seen in qed. He calls the system god. There are parts that we (him and I)disagree on, but the net effect is the same.
Why would people defend their belief he is wrong so hard? To point of taking mystic's belief personally.
Hey, long time no see! Have you been away or have I just not been posting on the Religion and Spirituality forum often enough to run into you occasionally? At any rate, I hope you're doing well.
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Originally Posted by Cruithne
It's been a long time since I have started a thread, but this thought just occurred to me.
It seems to me that everyone who believes in a god in the western world, in their adult life at least, has made some sort of choice about the kind of god they believe in.
For example, many people these days reject the judgemental, vengeful god as found in the old testament and opt for a more 'god is love' type of god. Why?
That's kind of hard to say, but I've always believed in a personal God who cares about me. I don't think I could actually worship a God that didn't. Most Christians would say (or at least their creeds and confessions of faith say) that God has "no body parts or passions." I believe exactly the opposite -- that I am in the physical image of God -- both a Father in Heaven and a Mother in Heaven -- two divine beings who created my life. I believe that it is their desire that I ultimately have the kind of existence that they have, and that that is why I'm here on earth. More than anything else, they want me to learn to love others unconditionally, because that is what leads to happiness. How could they possibly expect me to do that if they don't? How can they expect me to feel joy, sorrow, etc. if they haven't experienced these same feelings? None of those things are in line with the wrathful God portrayed in the Old Testament, and so I am drawn to what I want to the God I believe to be worthy of my worship.
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If god does actually exist, the type of god it is, wouldn't be a matter of choice.
So you could very possibly be believing in the wrong type of god.
Granted, it's largely cultural, and I would be the first to say that had I been born in Iran, I'd almost certainly be a Muslim today. Had I been born in China, I'd be a Buddhist or Taoist. Everybody who believes in God probably believes in a different "version" of God -- even people of the same religion. I personally believe there is only one God who has any say over what happens here on earth, but I can easily appreciate the fact that we all see Him differently. To me, what's important is that we all recognize a Higher Power. If I am believing in the wrong type of god, there's really not a whole lot I can do to change that. I just believe what I believe, and while that may sound trite, that's how it is. I would think, though, that God is not so insecure that He's going to be all that bothered by the fact that we may have misunderstandings about Him. To me, the sincerity with which we approach Him is more important than whether we get all the details about him right.
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Maybe the Native Americans had it right and there are many gods; of thunder, music, fire, wind and so on.
Many cultures in history have been similarly polytheistic.
So why nail your mast to believing in one type of god, that could be the wrong one?
I guess I kind of have to nail my mast to something, (I think that in atheist parlance that would mean that I need a crutch) and my belief in my God (right or wrong) is helping me to make sense out of this crazy world. It's also giving me something better to hope for in the future. And lastly, I believe it's making a better person out of me than I'd be otherwise.
Hey, if it turns out there is no god at all, I guess I'll be okay with that, too, because I won't be around to find out that I was wrong.
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I'm curious if any of you ever question the type of god you believe in?
To some extent, yes. I have given more thought to whether there's a god at all than I have to whether there is one, but not the one I've always believed in.
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Does it even matter? None of us know, so in that sense we are all agnostic.
You're right. Some are believing agnostics while others are unbelieving agnostics. It's just a matter of degree.
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And if it doesn't matter, why does everyone defend their belief so stridently?
I think it matters mostly with regards to what kind of a person it makes us. As to why people defend their beliefs so stridently, I'd say it's mostly out of insecurity. People don't like being wrong.
I personally believe there is one Source of Life in the Universe, whom some may call God, and that there are many paths to that Source. So I got them all covered!
1. If you were God, why would you need to be worshipped?
2. If you were God, why would you be bothered about people worshipping others?
This is presumably the creator of the universe were talking about here. Why would this creator be 'bothered' about things like that?
It is symptomatic of those who have created God in their own image and expect Him to love who they love and hate who they hate and want what they would want, etc..
Hey, long time no see! Have you been away or have I just not been posting on the Religion and Spirituality forum often enough to run into you occasionally? At any rate, I hope you're doing well.
That's kind of hard to say, but I've always believed in a personal God who cares about me. I don't think I could actually worship a God that didn't. Most Christians would say (or at least their creeds and confessions of faith say) that God has "no body parts or passions." I believe exactly the opposite -- that I am in the physical image of God -- both a Father in Heaven and a Mother in Heaven -- two divine beings who created my life. I believe that it is their desire that I ultimately have the kind of existence that they have, and that that is why I'm here on earth. More than anything else, they want me to learn to love others unconditionally, because that is what leads to happiness. How could they possibly expect me to do that if they don't? How can they expect me to feel joy, sorrow, etc. if they haven't experienced these same feelings? None of those things are in line with the wrathful God portrayed in the Old Testament, and so I am drawn to what I want to the God I believe to be worthy of my worship.
Granted, it's largely cultural, and I would be the first to say that had I been born in Iran, I'd almost certainly be a Muslim today. Had I been born in China, I'd be a Buddhist or Taoist. Everybody who believes in God probably believes in a different "version" of God -- even people of the same religion. I personally believe there is only one God who has any say over what happens here on earth, but I can easily appreciate the fact that we all see Him differently. To me, what's important is that we all recognize a Higher Power. If I am believing in the wrong type of god, there's really not a whole lot I can do to change that. I just believe what I believe, and while that may sound trite, that's how it is. I would think, though, that God is not so insecure that He's going to be all that bothered by the fact that we may have misunderstandings about Him. To me, the sincerity with which we approach Him is more important than whether we get all the details about him right.
I guess I kind of have to nail my mast to something, (I think that in atheist parlance that would mean that I need a crutch) and my belief in my God (right or wrong) is helping me to make sense out of this crazy world. It's also giving me something better to hope for in the future. And lastly, I believe it's making a better person out of me than I'd be otherwise.
Hey, if it turns out there is no god at all, I guess I'll be okay with that, too, because I won't be around to find out that I was wrong.
To some extent, yes. I have given more thought to whether there's a god at all than I have to whether there is one, but not the one I've always believed in.
You're right. Some are believing agnostics while others are unbelieving agnostics. It's just a matter of degree.
Thanks for your (as always) great post Katz.
I don't post as much now. Life kinda took over, plus I ran out of things to say.
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I think it matters mostly with regards to what kind of a person it makes us. As to why people defend their beliefs so stridently, I'd say it's mostly out of insecurity. People don't like being wrong
I just want to focus on the bolded here.
I've been listening to the most fantastic podcast by Ricky Gervais and Sam Harris.
Yes I know they are both atheists so that would put most people off, but it's actually a series of discussions about psychology, philosophy and some of the big questions in life. I thoroughly recommend it.
(I don't think people realise, but Gervais has a degree in philosophy.)
In one episode called 'What makes us who we are?', they get talking about nature and nurture and how those are intertwined. Harris claims that about 50% of who we are is already inbuilt / hardwired regardless of any external intervention or environment or upbringing.
I think that is probably true.
Harris talks about (I think in the same episode) a conversation he had once with one of the big mega church ministers (sorry I can't remember the name offhand. I might listen to the episode again and come back here to give you the name). He asked the minister why he thought he as an atheist, didn't commit bad deeds and the minister said "because you have what we call inner grace".
I was quite struck by that. The minister felt he needed god to guide him but felt that Sam Harris didn't because he was good anyway.
The podcast is called 'absolutely mental' if you are interested. It's a quirky title I grant you.
EDIT: I went to check. The mega church pastor that thought that Sam Harris had Inner Grace was called Rick Warren, and it's from an episode called "Where does morality come from?".
It's been a long time since I have started a thread, but this thought just occurred to me.
It seems to me that everyone who believes in a god in the western world, in their adult life at least, has made some sort of choice about the kind of god they believe in.
For example, many people these days reject the judgemental, vengeful god as found in the old testament and opt for a more 'god is love' type of god. Why?
If god does actually exist, the type of god it is, wouldn't be a matter of choice.
So you could very possibly be believing in the wrong type of god.
Maybe the Native Americans had it right and there are many gods; of thunder, music, fire, wind and so on.
Many cultures in history have been similarly polytheistic.
So why nail your mast to believing in one type of god, that could be the wrong one?
I'm curious if any of you ever question the type of god you believe in?
Does it even matter? None of us know, so in that sense we are all agnostic.
And if it doesn't matter, why does everyone defend their belief so stridently?
Your thoughts.
No. There is no "wrong God".
Whatever one's perception of "God", it's what is "right" for them.
Of course...people would like all others to prefer what they do as well. But that is not how it works in this world...and never will.
I’ve been around C-D long enough to have seen more than one thread asking this same question. The first three times I took the bait and got bored after 80 or so posts. Already the responses seem familiar.
I’ve been around C-D long enough to have seen more than one thread asking this same question. The first three times I took the bait and got bored after 80 or so posts. Already the responses seem familiar.
yuppers ...
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