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Belief and knowledge are two utterly different things.
Belief can be so powerful that it feels like knowledge, but it's not. Heck, the Bible says as much when it reads, "Faith is the confidence in what we hope for, and assurance about what we do not see."
I don't need to believe in the country of Australia, for example, even though I've never been. I have multiple friends and family members who have been to Australia. There are photos and videos galore of Australia. The empirical evidence of Australia is beyond dispute. That is knowledge.
Meanwhile, nothing in any of the world's religious faiths is knowledge. It's partly oral tradition, partly suppositions, partly the described experiences of individuals, and partly the work of theologians who try to create a framework in order to understand those experiences. Then again, atheism isn't any better, simply because there's no way to disprove religious belief either.
There's only one way we will have knowledge, our experiences after death. Until then, it's nothing more than educated guesses. And sometimes not all that educated.
Ah Peter600, so you are now admitting your default option may be wrong and your "logic" may be wrong and that it's possible that someone who disagrees with you on the matter may be correct.
Thanks for that admission.
Ah Peter600, so you are now admitting your default option may be wrong and your "logic" may be wrong and that it's possible that someone who disagrees with you on the matter may be correct.
Thanks for that admission.
If I have a position or claim, the burden is on me to give explicit justification. Then, after I have given explicit justification someone may give an explicit refusal of my justification. No one has done so yet for that post.
Obviously I might be wrong. I may be mistaken, my brain may be fooling myself, my perception of reality may be inaccurate, etc. Hence the need for explicit justification, evidence and argument for any position.
MinivanDriver .... belief and knowledge can often lead to the exact same thing. For example, a girl's cat went missing 5 minutes ago. That cat often hid in a little box in the attic. The girl had once seen the cat in the box 5 months ago. So, the girl ponders with "my cat was in that box back then and I believe it's in that box now, so I'll have a look". Guess what? She looked in the box and found the cat hiding there.
Conclusion = Point 1:The girl had a "belief" that the cat was there on the second occasion (she didn't "know" ..... she believed). Point 2:The girl had "knowledge" (based on the first occasion) which led to her belief.
Therefore, knowledge and belief are NOT "2 utterly different things" as you claim. They can merge and become one in order to achieve a final outcome.
If I have a position or claim, the burden is on me to give explicit justification. Then, after I have given explicit justification someone may give an explicit refusal of my justification. No one has done so yet for that post.
Obviously I might be wrong. I may be mistaken, my brain may be fooling myself, my perception of reality may be inaccurate, etc. Hence the need for explicit justification and argument for any position.
Peter600: Thanks so much for admitting you might be wrong, you might be mistaken, your brain may be fooling you, your perception of reality may be inaccurate, etc.
Peter600: Thanks so much for admitting you might be wrong, you might be mistaken, your brain may be fooling you, your perception of reality may be inaccurate, etc.
You sound way more agnostic than atheist. It seems you think your agnostic atheist stance is the correct way to go and that those who don't adopt your stance are likely wrong.
No, I doubt very much (99.99999%) any god or gods exist, which makes me an atheist. This is based on the knowledge I have. Agnosticism is saying one does not have enough information to make a decision.
No, I doubt very much (99.99999%) any god or gods exist, which makes me an atheist. This is based on the knowledge I have. Agnosticism is saying one does not have enough information to make a decision.
But you have not made a decision that a god thingy does NOT exist, therefore you are leaving open the "possibility" (no matter how small). Therefore you are very much an agnostic atheist.
When a person calls knowledge "fact" we can always eventually find people who call that exact same knowledge "non factual".
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