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I wouldn't call them "dashed expectations." Didn't seem like that to me anyway...
I simply came around to separating what I could believe with some level of reasonable certainty versus what otherwise seemed beliefs no longer as well justified as I once thought, or assumed. That's all. Seemed more like enlightenment to me rather than any sort of disappointment. .....
DITTO. No disappointment, no dashed expectations, no big letdown, no trauma, and no scarring. For me, just a realization that all this stuff I had been raised to believe didn't pass the smell test (the same test I would apply to any other aspect of my life). While I experienced no singular lightbulb moment, "enlightenment" is as good a descriptor as any.
Despite my immediate resonance with what LearnMe described, I will observe that the operative clause in what I just wrote is... "For me." There is a whole lot of projection in these threads, presupposing and imagining what others must have gone through to get where they are today, wherever that is.
Of course it is.
If the scenarios in The Bible are being critiqued/questioned on a literal interpretation basis...the "words" that provide for a Omnimax Powered God that knows everything and can do anything, and that cannot be constrained or "defeated" by what we know as "nature", or "logic", or physics, or anything else...is the whole "here & there" of that failproof argument.
Anything whatsoever that is questioned...all they have to say is "Jehovah God did it through his unlimited Omnimax Powers".
That's it...done deal! And that is why literal interpretation critiques, questioning, and arguments fail every time.
An argument, appearing in or revolving around the bible, failproof or otherwise, is merely rhetorical in nature. It is NOT factual. The bible, after all, is a work of religious fiction, not a recitation of the absolute laws of nature
Just because your book, or my book, or anyone else's book says something doesn't translate to the real world. That is the great disconnect that haunts, under the radar, your mind. YOU think that just because it says it in the bible, it is, of necessity, true (or false). Few things could be further from the truth.
Some religionists have conveniently forgotten history. In some cases, their own history.
Have we not all experienced ministers and priests and everyday people who preach that the bible is the exact word of god?
Have we not all experienced ministers and priests and everyday people who preach that the bible is an historical record? That Adam and Eve were 2 real and exact people...that the Garden Of Eden was a real place...that Noah's flood really did wipe out all life on earth except for what was in that one little ark, that Lot's wife turned into a pillar of salt...and on and on. Those things and many more have been taught by some christians for well over 2,000 years.
And now, as we are more and more aware of reality, some religionists want to say, "Wait a minute. The bible is the exact word of god; it was written by humans who were just interpreting what they saw and tried to explain what they saw". And, "Wait a minute, it's not exactly an historical record, because much of it's written in fictional stories so that not too knowledgeable people can understand". And, "No, there wasn't really actual people named Adam and Eve, and there really wasn't a Garden Of Eden, and the story of Noah's ark didn't actually happen, and no Lot's wife didn't turn into salt"...and so on.
It's the big lie. All of it...the big lie with ever-shifting sands. It's the biggest con job in history.
I'd try to suggest that our ancestors did the best they could to interpret whatever inspirations that they received with their limited knowledge and understanding of the world, Phet. But I don't think they actually did the best they could. Clearly, they took the most accessible and convenient rationalizations they could muster and have stuck with them through thick and thin. Only recently have any attempts to "do the best we can" to understand born any fruit at all, and that very sparingly.
I'd try to suggest that our ancestors did the best they could to interpret whatever inspirations that they received with their limited knowledge and understanding of the world, Phet. But I don't think they actually did the best they could. Clearly, they took the most accessible and convenient rationalizations they could muster and have stuck with them through thick and thin. Only recently have any attempts to "do the best we can" to understand born any fruit at all, and that very sparingly.
It would seem that some of us haven't changed all that much.
I got to thinking about this dynamic yesterday in the context of something a little different. Something like the placebo effect and how our minds all render us different notions about what we think is reality. Our reality as opposed to universal reality, truth. Think about how taking drugs of any sort or all sorts can produce very different feelings, visions and experiences for all of us. So very differently. How everyone can "trip" very differently as a result s.
The placebo effect is much more complex than what you have understood or misunderstood. It is not about reality, it is about healing. As shown below in the link, people given a placebo, marked as placebo still got relief better than those who got no med at all. Research indicates it is the ritual of taking a pill that produces the positive energy in the brain function that helps alleviate the pain. It is real as real can be.
Similarly acting as if you believe in a power that is more than what the world and our personal reality seems to be, can produce positive energy, via rituals such as prayer, meditation, worship, in other words, yoga. Yoga is not just about poses, it is a body mind connection, just like a placebo. But it is not a placebo, it is the real thing.
"Placebo" affect is real. That doesn't mean all "medicine" is fake.
But what the guys fighting religion are doing is saying that "All god(s) (and they choose what belief fits that when needed) medicine is a placebo." or discussions not directly related to fighting the big religion is muddying waters, or straw manning.
Like believing we are all connected and part of a larger system. That most certainty is not the best place to start talking about beliefs ... I mean its just too science based and won't end in us smashing all beliefs.
they won't line their beliefs like, "[that belief] is a spark to religion and needs to be stopped" against "lets compare it to a science book."
The placebo effect is much more complex than what you have understood or misunderstood. It is not about reality, it is about healing. As shown below in the link, people given a placebo, marked as placebo still got relief better than those who got no med at all. Research indicates it is the ritual of taking a pill that produces the positive energy in the brain function that helps alleviate the pain. It is real as real can be.
Similarly acting as if you believe in a power that is more than what the world and our personal reality seems to be, can produce positive energy, via rituals such as prayer, meditation, worship, in other words, yoga. Yoga is not just about poses, it is a body-mind connection, just like a placebo. But it is not a placebo, it is the real thing.
That is what I meant when I said that they don't even bother to ask themselves what the placebo effect IS, CB. It is definitely real, not fake. They just refuse even to consider what it is.
An argument, appearing in or revolving around the bible, failproof or otherwise, is merely rhetorical in nature. It is NOT factual. The bible, after all, is a work of religious fiction, not a recitation of the absolute laws of nature
Just because your book, or my book, or anyone else's book says something doesn't translate to the real world. That is the great disconnect that haunts, under the radar, your mind. YOU think that just because it says it in the bible, it is, of necessity, true (or false). Few things could be further from the truth.
You're welcome.
Yours in Salty Water
I have oft noted that I view The Bible as a metaphorical and allegorical work of great literary art.
You are the one that keeps questioning all the accounts of occurrences and the thoughts & actions of the various characters, on a literal basis...and keep asking, "How can this be?"
So...I explained how it all could be...if you are critiquing and questioning it as a literal documentary account.
"Jehovah God did it all"...the Book told you that, didn't it?
I have oft noted that I view The Bible as a metaphorical and allegorical work of great literary art.
You are the one that keeps questioning all the accounts of occurrences and the thoughts & actions of the various characters, on a literal basis...and keep asking, "How can this be?"
So...I explained how it all could be...if you are critiquing and questioning it as a literal documentary account.
"Jehovah God did it all"...the Book told you that, didn't it?
No, it didn't. Johovah God doesn't exist.
The bible and all other religious books are fiction, pure and simple. The facts of nature, as compared to the fiction of these books demonstrates that clearly and unambiguously.
The bible and all other religious books are fiction, pure and simple. The facts of nature, as compared to the fiction of these books demonstrates that clearly and unambiguously.
I don't think it's as simple as being fiction or non-fiction.
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That is what I meant when I said that they don't even bother to ask themselves what the placebo effect IS, CB. It is definitely real, not fake. They just refuse even to consider what it is.
