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The really silly part of these kinds of debates is that literally everything evolved from earlier beliefs. It was perfectly natural for Christian feasts to be adaptations of pagan or secular celebrations that converted barbarians were partial to. The story of the Flood in the Bible is a remake of the Epic of Gilgamesh. The notion of god having a son who is sacrificed in some way is a pre-Christian trope as well. The idea of Jesus being a sacrifice for all is an evolution of the scapegoat in Jewish ritual, which in turn is just a variation on countless other religions with their various forms of sacrifices to appease the gods, including human sacrifice. Christianity just made all the blood-letting and substitutionary punishment metaphorical, so there was no longer a need for a physical temple complex. Human sacrifice => animal sacrifice => once-for-all substitutionary atonement for all time, appropriated by faith. Each step less messy than the prior one. Makes perfect sense.
Some of the angst the JWs have about the pagan origins of certain holidays is shared by the pentecostal / holiness sects. An elder in a church who visited us was upset that we had little sculpted owls as coaster-holders in our house. He was faux-incredulous that we didn't know that owls are symbols of the devil. We should throw them out and burn them immediately. It was him who got thrown out, and we were nice enough not to burn him ;-)
That is the problem with this kind of thinking ... where does it end? My fundamentalist sister-in-law is discomfited by anything that is a little edgy in terms of art. My wife has some garden decorations -- figurines with whimsical expressions that are somewhat reminiscent to my SIL's mind of imps. She keeps her lip zipped but I know it freaked her a bit. I have a plant in my living room that I'm looking at right now that is known in slang as a "mother-in-law's tongue" because of the sharp leaves. There's something in our house for everyone to get upset about I suppose!
There’s no doubt there’s still a lot of Pagan influences in Christianity.
When Constantine legalised Christianity, and made it the main religion of the Roman Empire, some of the pagan influences had to stay to facilitate the change.
I have no problems with that, as it was done out of necessity to convert the masses.
Whether some holidays and feasts today are still pagan in origin, is purely historical and not something to be concerned about.
The really silly part of these kinds of debates is that literally everything evolved from earlier beliefs. It was perfectly natural for Christian feasts to be adaptations of pagan or secular celebrations that converted barbarians were partial to. The story of the Flood in the Bible is a remake of the Epic of Gilgamesh. The notion of god having a son who is sacrificed in some way is a pre-Christian trope as well. The idea of Jesus being a sacrifice for all is an evolution of the scapegoat in Jewish ritual, which in turn is just a variation on countless other religions with their various forms of sacrifices to appease the gods, including human sacrifice. Christianity just made all the blood-letting and substitutionary punishment metaphorical, so there was no longer a need for a physical temple complex. Human sacrifice => animal sacrifice => once-for-all substitutionary atonement for all time, appropriated by faith. Each step less messy than the prior one. Makes perfect sense.
Some of the angst the JWs have about the pagan origins of certain holidays is shared by the pentecostal / holiness sects. An elder in a church who visited us was upset that we had little sculpted owls as coaster-holders in our house. He was faux-incredulous that we didn't know that owls are symbols of the devil. We should throw them out and burn them immediately. It was him who got thrown out, and we were nice enough not to burn him ;-)
That is the problem with this kind of thinking ... where does it end? My fundamentalist sister-in-law is discomfited by anything that is a little edgy in terms of art. My wife has some garden decorations -- figurines with whimsical expressions that are somewhat reminiscent to my SIL's mind of imps. She keeps her lip zipped but I know it freaked her a bit. I have a plant in my living room that I'm looking at right now that is known in slang as a "mother-in-law's tongue" because of the sharp leaves. There's something in our house for everyone to get upset about I suppose!
We had a coworker who told one woman that the troll doll in her cubicle represented the devil.
There’s no doubt there’s still a lot of Pagan influences in Christianity.
When Constantine legalised Christianity, and made it the main religion of the Roman Empire, some of the pagan influences had to stay to facilitate the change.
I have no problems with that, as it was done out of necessity to convert the masses.
Whether some holidays and feasts today are still pagan in origin, is purely historical and not something to be concerned about.
A few of those early Emperors (popes) of the Church did not believe in the Trinity. Essentially they felt Jesus was just some guy, similar to contemporary Jewish opinion of Christ. St Hilary tried to straighten that out and was exiled for it.
The encyclopedias are filled with info on the pagan false god worship additives into the worlds celebrations. Jesus taught to be no part of this world. As well 1Cor 10:21--teaches- one cannot partake off of Gods table and the table of demons. Many are being mislead into doing both. But to God no matter what one thinks they are doing for him counts 0 if they as well partake off the table of demons.
In the chaldean rites of spring-The false Goddess associaiated with that holiday( dyed eggs of Pasch-hot cross buns)=Astarte( beltis) the queen of heaven=Ishtar. pronounced-easter.
The saturnalia festival-worship to the son. late december celebration-feasting and the exchanging of gifts. This was turned into christmas.
Halloween? I think the churches that do celebrate Halloween don't make it into a scary thing of the past. They just over look things and make it more of a family celebration. As long it is good taste. For example, not allowed is the dress up as some Vampire with scary looks in Church. Or not allowed to dress up as some scary monster and make it in spite of a family time atmosphere. These kinds of rules always exist. So they set limits to what you can use as a costume. I think it's okay. As long as they stick to the rules of what's not acceptable.
Halloween? I think the churches that do celebrate Halloween don't make it into a scary thing of the past. They just over look things and make it more of a family celebration. As long it is good taste. For example, not allowed is the dress up as some Vampire with scary looks in Church. Or not allowed to dress up as some scary monster and make it in spite of a family time atmosphere. These kinds of rules always exist. So they set limits to what you can use as a costume. I think it's okay. As long as they stick to the rules of what's not acceptable.
I am sure God looks down and sees halloween filled with the occult and its something the world does, not a follower of Jesus would do.
I am sure God looks down and sees halloween filled with the occult and its something the world does, not a follower of Jesus would do.
Here's a post I think we should all remember whenever we see a christian on this forum tell us about how the overwhelming population of America is christian and how this is a christian nation. kjw tells us a follower of Jesus would not celebrate halloween. And yet, "Americans are estimated to have spent a record $10.14 billion on Halloween in 2021" according to the National Retail Federation.
It is estimated that 65% of Americans celebrate halloween. So now, according to kjw, we know that at most 35% of Americans are christian.
Here's a post I think we should all remember whenever we see a christian on this forum tell us about how the overwhelming population of America is christian and how this is a christian nation. kjw tells us a follower of Jesus would not celebrate halloween. And yet, "Americans are estimated to have spent a record $10.14 billion on Halloween in 2021" according to the National Retail Federation.
It is estimated that 65% of Americans celebrate halloween. So now, according to kjw, we know that at most 35% of Americans are christian.
Thanks for clearing that up!
Haha. But of course we know this poster considers only 0.8% of the population to be Christian, so no.
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