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As an atheist, I’d argue (pun intended) online popular opinion is not the logical method by which to learn anything - other than conformity.
Yes. That is one outcome. The other outcome is to learn about another person's preferences and not mistake them for things that can be labeled right or wrong.
And that's a key point right there. You can learn from someone with an opposing view, without necessarily changing your view.
Yes, true. But what I do appreciate is when people build on what I have posted instead of taking on a full-on opposition view. I liken this kind of discussion operating within the zone of proximal development.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northsouth
So have I, and I want it to continue in that general direction. And like you said, a spirited 'conversation' or debate brings the spice. I understand what the OP is saying but this is a not the place to ask "why argue".
You studied religion; I studied law. The latter is (far) more relevant to the thread/facts. Again, it doesn’t matter (to me) if you post/follow daily commandments (nor is it necessary I understand why you do so). My opinion (and the law relative to such) remains the same.
It comes back around to the point i.e. it doesn’t matter how illogical (or angry) one’s opinion is relative to the thread/forum, they’re entitled to it as long as they make it about their own life vs. control of others. If not, I’m more than willing to argue/defend such. Some things matter; others, not so much. Obviously, our discussion/differences are distinctively the latter (and not relevant to the thread subject, in and of itself, either).
That said, one can’t cram logic down a person’s throat any more than you can do so with religion. The entire basis of logic is being able to think/see the bigger picture for one’s self; hence, why argue (per the thread)?
Again in the name of simply setting the record straight...
I studied many subjects, including religion and the law. I started posting one of the 613 commandments on a daily basis to learn what they were in a slow, methodical manner that I felt would help me learn and understand them. Not that it matters to you either way, but that's why I've done so regardless.
Not sure what opinion you are referring to that "remains the same." I've made no effort to change your opinion that mostly seems aligned with mine. I've just tried to clarify if not correct an assumption or two you seemed to be making about my comments, opinions and beliefs.
With respect to what "it comes back around to," again I am in total agreement. I'm not sure who it was that would suggest otherwise, but I know it wasn't me. Why argue indeed? Especially if there is no one on the other end of your argument.
That's what makes discussion spirited or as my friends like to say "that's what brings the spice." I think we value the perception of being right as it gives the perception of confidence as opposed to being a flip-flop. There is a saying from where I grew up that states something along the lines of that one should stand up for something or one'll fall for everything.
When we form a belief or opinion, it is done with bias. We cherry-pick the evidence to support it. When people argue, what they bring is their own cherry-picked evidence. Nothing wrong with any of it. I've learned a lot from many people here.
I think it depends on what one means by spirited. The different forums in CD have different spirit such as Fashion&Beauty, Retirement, or Writing. On a forum like P&O where controversies is right there on the title, people dont just argue, much less discuss there, they push agendas, and that seems one of the forums purpose. Although the topic here is far apart form P&O, many here express their opinion they are the same, that politics cannot be separated from R&S so their discussion style also follows that way of thinking.
What we lose by this is those who do actually post thoughtful, interesting, learned and knowledgeable ideas about Religion and Spirituality. Their voice are drowned and cancelled out, ridiculed by ignorant and agenda-laden arguments, arguments for just the sake of arguing. This is dispiriting, nothing spiritual about it. And I admit that kind of nastiness is contagious and is reflected back which leads to the a thread shut down.
Yes, true. But what I do appreciate is when people build on what I have posted instead of taking on a full-on opposition view. I liken this kind of discussion operating within the zone of proximal development.
I like the notion of "building on" instead of arguing, as I continue to build on your thoughts and mine about how perhaps it's as other than argument that much of these exchanges can be seen. "Proximal development" is perfect, if only we were all better at looking at things that way...
Why argue indeed when there are so many other good alternatives? Problem is, one person's argument is another person's proximal development. Others like to say "if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen." It's never altogether clear to me what we're dealing with in this forum given so many different personality types and "styles," but one thing is certain. We all don't see, appreciate or participate in this forum in the same way.
Yes. That is one outcome. The other outcome is to learn about another person's preferences and not mistake them for things that can be labeled right or wrong.
Learning other people's preference is just learning about their preference. That does not further learning, knowledge, or deepen any understanding about R&S.
Learning other people's preference is just learning about their preference. That does not further learning, knowledge, or deepen any understanding about R&S.
I believe elyn, like me, is always interested in "what makes other people tick," or at least I think she was among those who have expressed the same interest in the past...
Of course, this doesn't mean that everyone is equally interesting to better understand, but that interest is at least in part what makes for some learning in this forum. Some of which is interesting, informative and worth considering. Some of which is not. For all of us to judge as we will, and of course that is a function of what it is we are interested in learning. I'm not always so singularly interested in just understanding R&S.
Following along in this forum has not only provided me insights into what R&S means to other people, but other insights I value as well. It's certainly not a "one size fits all" sort of scenario in any case. I for one wouldn't want it to be.
Learning about another person's preferences may be a dead end. I can have a long conversation about catholicism, and learn all about a catholic's personal preferences toward that religion, but not learn anything about catholicism...since I was a catholic for many years. Or, that person may bring something up that I'm not familiar with, and thus learn something.
If I was having a similar conversation with a Sikh or a Jew or a Mormon, I would probably learn something, even if a lot of it was based on their personal preferences about religion.
Formal book-learning (so to speak) is one thing, but it often tells us nothing about how people live their religion.
Learning about another person's preferences may be a dead end. I can have a long conversation about catholicism, and learn all about a catholic's personal preferences toward that religion, but not learn anything about catholicism...since I was a catholic for many years. Or, that person may bring something up that I'm not familiar with, and thus learn something.
If I was having a similar conversation with a Sikh or a Jew or a Mormon, I would probably learn something, even if a lot of it was based on their personal preferences about religion.
Formal book-learning (so to speak) is one thing, but it often tells us nothing about how people live their religion.
Reading carefully chosen books and studies about religion and spirituality is far better than making erroneous conclusions about other people just because one know a person from the religion or ethnicity.
Books tell a lot about a lot of things, mostly about how to think.
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