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Again none of this negates the possibility for a god. Thing is, you're operating under the notion that Theists need to prove to you with evidence that god exists. From their perspective they don't feel the need to provide you with such evidence, their own experience and faith in god is a part of their life is far beyond your evidence that you think you have that disproves god. Nobody in here is going to turn you into a Theist and make no mistake, you are not going to turn a Theist into an Athiest - i'm pretty certain of it.
My perspective is - we don't have enough evidence for existence to prove one way or another. You think you do. You don't. You think your knowledge of the natural world and universe is sufficient. It isn't, but if it is for you carry on! I've said to Athiest's in here - I get how you've come to the conclusion there is no god and I do. Having said that, it doesn't mean everyone else has come to such a conclusion. It is a complicated issue and showing that the brain fires when it is involved in spiritual thought is not in my view evidence that god doesn't exist. Same thing if the brain creates 'non existing' things. Ok well then if it does, maybe the evidence you claim to have supporting the notion that god doesn't exist is also non-existent. It's a mirage and fooling you. Your brain is filling in the gaps to support the narrative you want to push - god doesn't exist even though it is possible he does. There is certainly not enough evidence in the natural world/universe that we have proving god doesn't exist. I also agree, there isn't evidence that proves he does and that may just be the way it will be and it is ok.
First,Moderator cut: No need to apologize for a remark already deleted.
Second, none of this is to PROVE God doesn't exist because such a notion cannot be proved just as God cannot be proved TO exist. All we can do is offer solid evidence that points to the likelihood that God and Jesus do not exist. I have done that in innumerable threads as new evidence comes to light that more and more demonstrates that God is merely an invention of mankind to cope with negative things such as death, suffering, evil, disease and the like.
Rationally speaking, a God would not choose to stimulate pleasure centers of the brain that are stimulated by earthly delights such as drugs, sex and thrills and chills. A God would know it's too easy for man to conclude what science says about that: that "God" is just a good hit of crack cocaine or a good orgasm during great sex. I think an intelligent God would stimulate no brain chemicals at all and put the whole religious experience on a purely spiritual level not subject to any physiological indications.
Last edited by mensaguy; 03-20-2023 at 05:31 PM..
Reason: Moderator deleted remark.
My bias is showing? really I think you haven't read all my posts. But if you feel that way I can't help it but I will say, there is way too much we do not not about existence to discount the existence of god. I've also said I don't know if god exists and am ok if he does not and this is it. I think I am actually pretty balanced in my approach in that i am saying I do not know. If that is offensive than so be it.
Just out of curiosity, do you think many people feel they are not "pretty balanced"?
First, my profuse apology for saying God and Jesus can rot in hell. That was callous and insulting to Christians and wasn't called for.
Well i'm not Christian so maybe take that up with them? I mean for an Athiest however, it would be illogical to say that God or Jesus can rot in hell because I don't believe athiests believe in hell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte
Second, none of this is to PROVE God doesn't exist because such a notion cannot be proved just as God cannot be proved TO exist. All we can do is offer solid evidence that points to the likelihood that God and Jesus do not exist. I have done that in innumerable threads as new evidence comes to light that more and more demonstrates that God is merely an invention of mankind to cope with negative things such as death, suffering, evil, disease and the like.
I don't think the evidence is solid enough to point to the unlikelihood of god. On the other hand, I don't think there is scientific evidence for god - that would not be the manner in which a person would tap into spirituality. Belief in god however, that is something for an individual to process and is the result of their own beliefs and experiences. Some people believe just because they grew into it, so I do think there are some who haven't really thought critically about their religious or theistic beliefs. There are those however that have a strong belief and it forms a big part of who they are. I am not going to casually dismiss them nor their experiences.
So yes, it is possible god is a made up thing. Or it is possible to believe is an intrinsic part in who we are - including our physical makeup and neurology. We are just skimming the surface of our understanding of the universe. The tragic thing is - in our lifetime, as much as we have learned as a species so far, I don't think science will have the answer for us. Only our perception of likelihoods.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte
Rationally speaking, a God would not choose to stimulate pleasure centers of the brain that are stimulated by earthly delights such as drugs, sex and thrills and chills. A God would know it's too easy for man to conclude what science says about that: that "God" is just a good hit of crack cocaine or a good orgasm during great sex. I think an intelligent God would stimulate no brain chemicals at all and put the whole religious experience on a purely spiritual level not subject to any physiological indications.
Why wouldn't god want to stimulate the pleasure centres of the brain when it comes to him? I would imagine he would want that exactly. We are physical beings so i'm not sure why godly interactions (assuming there is a god), wouldn't be built into us and our neurologic expressions. I think more relevant questions would be if there is a god, why do we exist in this form. Why did we evolve from simpler life forms and what will continued evolution mean for us and potentially will that include an elevated interaction with and understanding of god. I certainly think that there are species more elevated than us that have tapped into experiences in the universe that we can only imagine at this point.
Just out of curiosity, do you think many people feel they are not "pretty balanced"?
Well put this way - I don't know if god exists or not based on everything I know. Is it fair to conclude that this is pretty balanced. Yes, no maybe so.
All I know is Jesus claims he loves children. The Bible claims God loves us more than anything--so much he sacrificed his own son and all that other religious garbage. He loves children soooooooooooooooooo much that he sits on his fat butt and ALLOWS children to be raped and murdered while he watches when he could do something about it. And the stupid reason Christians give:
"Awwwww....he can't violate the free will of the people who choose to rape, torture and murder children!"
Moderator cut: Remarks removed that were insulting to all religious people.
If God didnt let people choose to do right or wrong then that would remove the possibility of us choosing to trust and believe God through your own will.
We have the freedom to be a glutton, lie, hate, be angry, gossip, murder, and commit every other sin. imagine if God stopped us every time we wanted to do something that was not perfectly holy. We live in a sinful world and God has given all of us the freedom to choose to be holy or evil. This does not mean that God is evil (James 1:13-15). It means that whoever performed the abuse did an evil deed. That person is the one who causes the abuse.
If God prevented every evil deed, then the world would be a perfect place, but it is not perfect. If God prevented every evil deed, then we would be robots because we are inherently sinful ourselves. But God gave and Adam and Eve the freedom to sin. He is still allowing people to sin. When we sin, we are responsible – not God. When someone else sins, they sinned and not God. We are to blame for our actions for God never does evil or fails to act justly.
The thing is, which im sure you don't believe, is God himself as Yeshua went through pain and suffering, willingly for us all. You ask where is Jesus when a childs being raped, hes right their reliving his crucifixion with them.
Again none of this negates the possibility for a god. Thing is, you're operating under the notion that Theists need to prove to you with evidence that god exists. From their perspective they don't feel the need to provide you with such evidence, their own experience and faith in god is a part of their life is far beyond your evidence that you think you have that disproves god. Nobody in here is going to turn you into a Theist and make no mistake, you are not going to turn a Theist into an Athiest - i'm pretty certain of it.
No, I am operating under the notion that everyone needs to provide evidence for positive claims, including theists. If someone does not have that evidence, we do not need to believe those claims, especially when they are extraordinary claims.
And if theists do not feel the need to provide evidence for their claims, then they should stop making those claim if they do not want others to ask for evidence, and they need to stop trying to dictate how the world works based on their claims without evidence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2
My perspective is - we don't have enough evidence for existence to prove one way or another. You think you do. You don't. You think your knowledge of the natural world and universe is sufficient. It isn't, but if it is for you carry on! I've said to Athiest's in here - I get how you've come to the conclusion there is no god and I do. Having said that, it doesn't mean everyone else has come to such a conclusion. It is a complicated issue and showing that the brain fires when it is involved in spiritual thought is not in my view evidence that god doesn't exist. Same thing if the brain creates 'non existing' things. Ok well then if it does, maybe the evidence you claim to have supporting the notion that god doesn't exist is also non-existent. It's a mirage and fooling you. Your brain is filling in the gaps to support the narrative you want to push - god doesn't exist even though it is possible he does. There is certainly not enough evidence in the natural world/universe that we have proving god doesn't exist. I also agree, there isn't evidence that proves he does and that may just be the way it will be and it is ok.
So far, knowledge of the natural world is all we have, and has been for over 2000 years. It explains a lot, from why galaxies, stars and planets exist, to why we as humans are here, even to why we have morals. So far, all the evidence is for naturalism. Atheists have met that burden of proof, even though many do not realize this.
To argue there is a god behind all of this is an extra claim, and it is that extra claim that requires extra evidence.
I suppose if a person is rigidly entrenched in believing they know everything about existence even though we are not even close to understanding it yet - perhaps it does no good to mention it.
It has nothing to do with knowing everything about existence, it is to do with using what we do know, and not arguing from what we do not know.
If God didnt let people choose to do right or wrong then that would remove the possibility of us choosing to trust and believe God through your own will.
We have the freedom to be a glutton, lie, hate, be angry, gossip, murder, and commit every other sin. imagine if God stopped us every time we wanted to do something that was not perfectly holy. We live in a sinful world and God has given all of us the freedom to choose to be holy or evil. This does not mean that God is evil (James 1:13-15). It means that whoever performed the abuse did an evil deed. That person is the one who causes the abuse.
If God prevented every evil deed, then the world would be a perfect place, but it is not perfect. If God prevented every evil deed, then we would be robots because we are inherently sinful ourselves. But God gave and Adam and Eve the freedom to sin. He is still allowing people to sin. When we sin, we are responsible – not God. When someone else sins, they sinned and not God. We are to blame for our actions for God never does evil or fails to act justly.
The thing is, which im sure you don't believe, is God himself as Yeshua went through pain and suffering, willingly for us all. You ask where is Jesus when a childs being raped, hes right their reliving his crucifixion with them.
This is just more Christian lunatic reasoning that doesn't make a bit of sense. Note I am not calling you a lunatic because I know you're just parroting lunacy that has been repeated over and over to you.
You and I both know that God violated man's free will innumerable times in the Bible. So my question to you is "If God can pick and choose the times when he must honor man's free will and then there are other times when it's perfectly okay for him to violate it then why shouldn't I conclude that this god of yours is capricious idiot who plays favorites when he decides whose lives he's going to butt into and whose lives he's going to leave alone." If you're going to tell me he's God so he can do anything he wants, then that's just going to make me more certain that your god is an immoral monster, playing favorites with people’s lives and I’m going to ask, "Why should anyone worship such an unstable schizophrenic creature?"
As for Jesus going through our pain and suffering so we don't have to, I remind people that according to the mythology Jesus suffered for 3 hours. BIG DEAL. Contrast that with Christians born with horrible deformities who suffer horribly all their lives. Why doesn't Jesus take that kind of suffering on him instead of some mythical torment in hell nonsense.
Face it: you Christians have constructed an incredibly obtuse and deceptive labyrinth of excuses, justifications, dodges, denials and outright brainless responses to perfectly logical questions that people are going to ask about your religion. When someone gives you a reason not to believe one lie you construct another to cover that lie and then yet another to cover the subsequent one. Why don't your churchmen heed Sir Walter Scott who said:
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!"
Last edited by thrillobyte; 03-21-2023 at 12:06 PM..
First,Moderator cut: No need to apologize for a remark already deleted.
Second, none of this is to PROVE God doesn't exist because such a notion cannot be proved just as God cannot be proved TO exist. All we can do is offer solid evidence that points to the likelihood that God and Jesus do not exist. I have done that in innumerable threads as new evidence comes to light that more and more demonstrates that God is merely an invention of mankind to cope with negative things such as death, suffering, evil, disease and the like.
Rationally speaking, a God would not choose to stimulate pleasure centers of the brain that are stimulated by earthly delights such as drugs, sex and thrills and chills. A God would know it's too easy for man to conclude what science says about that: that "God" is just a good hit of crack cocaine or a good orgasm during great sex. I think an intelligent God would stimulate no brain chemicals at all and put the whole religious experience on a purely spiritual level not subject to any physiological indications.
If you do not want to believe in the supernatural thats on you.
Why do you become so indignant that others know God and know that he is real? For some reason this really bothers you.
Now if you choose to not believe in God thats ok. It doesn't grieve or bother me in any way. It saddens me actually. I will pray for you.
It would be interesting if someone attacked and made fun of the OP's views in a childish way like he's dishing out. But he probably couldn't take it, so we'll continue to show a better representation of humanity (while enjoying the circus show).
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