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How do you know this? You can not. You are just making ad hoc excuses.
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He said so. Your disbelief doesn't mean that it didn't happen.
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Apparently that is your position.
You could also know what he has said and what he wants if you'd read his Word. It's there for all to see. I'm no more an expert than anyone else. It's not like I'm the gnostic claiming to have special knowledge that God imparted to me through a vision.
Weird. Jesus told me he doesn't know YOU. Hmmm.....
I've seen no indication whatsoever that you've studied the actual persona of Jesus. If it were true, you'd actually act like him, and you'd want to tell others of him, instead of some hippy dippy gnostic spiritualism.
Yes. Jesus gave up his life because he loved the world, and he wanted to redeem his people. No question.
But that does not invalidate the fact that as God, he did pour out wrath at times.
Jude 5 "Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe."
What you need to explain is why you believe that love and wrath are not possible from a holy and just God? And why YOU are more qualified to pick and choose which verses to believe than anyone else?
bold above is valid. for any path.
a measure and indicator of a person's understanding of a path, any path, is how they embody it in their daily life. how they walk it.
"demonstrated proficiency" as they say at work
You do not KNOW Jesus because you think everything in the Bible is about Jesus and accept everything in it was from Jesus. It is NOT. You have to study to discern the actual persona of Jesus from HIS actions and attitudes, NOT the interpretations of our ancestors. Their interpretations are too dependent on their state of mind whereas their mere descriptions of what Jesus did and how He reacted are less prone to misinterpretation than their interpretations of why.
You cannot just read verses in the Bible and accept them as accurate at face value. Jesus displayed no wrath or vengeance during His scourging and crucifixion. He had love and forgiveness for their ignorant savagery (They know not what they do.) That reveals that God has no wrath towards us even when we do such horrendous things against Him. To believe He would EVER have wrath toward us for anything less is preposterous!
It is only our ancestors' primitive and barbaric beliefs about a wrathful God who needed to be appeased by us with blood sacrifices that produced the misinterpretation of how Jesus reacted.
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Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
Weird. Jesus told me he doesn't know YOU. Hmmm.....
I've seen no indication whatsoever that you've studied the actual persona of Jesus. If it were true, you'd actually act like him, and you'd want to tell others of him, instead of some hippy dippy gnostic spiritualism.
I don't just like Jesus, BF, I LOVE Him!!! I AM telling others about the REAL Jesus as I encountered Hiis consciousness. The bold above is because you have no clue how to discern the character and persona from a narrative. You just read the Bible and assume everything in it describes Jesus and God. It does NOT. You don't learn the character of Rhett Butler from EVERYTHING written in Gone with the Wind. You read what Rhett Butler's actions and attitudes were as depicted in the narrative.
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Yes. Jesus gave up his life because he loved the world, and he wanted to redeem his people. No question.
That is an interpretation based on our ancestors' belief that everything that happened was the Will of God. Their wrathful War God should have devastated the Romans so God MUST have demanded it as a blood sacrifice to appease Him for "whatever." That is what they believed needed to be done to appease God for their whole lives (and for all preceding generations). The idea that Jesus was demonstrating the error of their belief about God's wrath towards us was inconceivable to them.
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But that does not invalidate the fact that as God, he did pour out wrath at times.
Jude 5 "Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe."
That is what our ancestors BELIEVED God did, not what Jesus did as Jesus. Their mistaken beliefs about God were the problem and the reason Jesus came in the flesh to correct them. "You have been told, but I say. . ."
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What you need to explain is why you believe that love and wrath are not possible from a holy and just God? And why YOU are more qualified to pick and choose which verses to believe than anyone else?
I do not pick and choose anything. The persona of Jesus does. Someone who would endure savage and brutal scourging and crucifixion with agape love and forgiveness because "they know not what they do" has no wrath IN Him!!! To believe that He would ever have wrath against us for any of our ignorant actions toward Him is preposterous. Besides, wrath is an immature egotistical response to things we are impotent to correct and incompatible with agape love.
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