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I can also e-mail the FAQ from the former website to anyone who is interested - it's not my place to post it publically - just DM me :-)
peace.
My question to you is this: if the FAQ was previously posted on the MP website (Internet reaches the world), why can’t you post it on this thread, or a link to it? Plus, it seems that a FAQ written by the hand of your guru is very much the objective side of ‘Truth’ that you think is missing in this thread. Isn’t that who you are here to represent?
Since your guru ‘has nothing to hide,’ what’s the big deal? It just seems that your guru would want His Message of the Absolute Truth available to all people. Why do people who are interested in reading FAQ regarding MP and Gary Olsen have to send you a Direct Message and then wait for your reply? (Which may or may not be forthcoming).
Seems your guru would want that information easily accessible and available to all interested seekers of truth. But that’s just an opinion from my ‘contemplative’ state of mind.
I have other questions, doubts, and concerns, but they can wait for another time.
also, on a final note. Your guru is a public figure. Your guru is claiming to be a ‘true living master’. Your guru is claiming to be a Swateh Saint.
We are not public figures and we are not making any of those outlandish spiritual claims. The "Light and Sound Teachings" state that close observation and scrutiny is encouraged. From my perspective, that is all that is happening. Your guru is being studied by a magnifying glass. And it should be no big deal since 'he has nothing to hide'.
Are you 'screening' who the FAQ information is shared with? Or, is it available for the eyes of detractors too?
Well...I re-contemplated carefully everything that @EOF wrote in her recent posts, and also what I wrote in a DM response to her yesterday evening, some of which I paraphrase below. What a difference a day makes - (24 little hours)!
After contemplation, I realized that there was no confidential content in my DM to her that I wouldn't feel comfortable saying in public as well - I merely gave @EOF the option to reply to me by DM to describe what she might still not be comfortable with sharing with all readers of this thread, for whichever reasons she has (and I totally respect those reasons).
I added that I don't condone the potential revelation of @EOF's (nor anyone else's) true identity on this thread - Truly I consider this a reasonable request for it to remain a MasterPather's Anonymous, (for those who choose to remain so) so no, I do not condone the approach taken by @jay-cos in his earlier post, and I also state that I have not been asked by the Outer Master (Sri Gary) to screen anyone, nor to post anything on his behalf - So @Deepcynic: No, he has not "replaced allan with me to get his side out".
As a sat guru once said, "Truth holds its own, and needs no defence." - As I stated before however, in this age of internet-free-speech and Google Maps, I believe in equal representation of all sides of a discussion (even in my own head in my decision-making processes) in order to get to truth, and so I agree with @EOF: Yes, let everything be Totally Out in the Open - and so here I am again, "acting to know"
I wouldn't say that I have read each and every one of the 891 posts on here as yet, but at least the vast majority of them - enough to get the gist so far - As a chela, I was a little "dismayed" over the virtual flame-war that erupted between some of the chelas such as @Allan1015, ex-chelas and on-lookers etc, but now that I understand in a little more depth why there were and are such vociferiously-expressed opinions on all sides, I judge no-one for this, nor will I take such an immovable stance that I will not remain open-minded, so let @DeepCynic and others be the judge of my "credibility" in the long-run as this story unfolds...
Here is the link to the file I DM'd to @EOF last night - a printed-snapshot of the www.MasterPath.org website from the year 2000:
The reason I asked for anyone who was interested to DM me their e-mail address, was not to "screen them", but because there seemed at first no other simple way of getting a 15-page PDF file out via this forum...but I have now figured out a way to put it on the e-Snips file sharing service:
As you will see it is entitled "An Open Letter" - there was a copyright notice at the bottom of the last page, and as this is no longer part of the current MasterPath website, I "contemplated" the intellectual property aspects of "sharing print-outs of old-websites", and it seemed to me that sharing the file in a "fair-use" sense, was OK in the circumstances: the international-electronic-equivalent of "pointing at a document I hold in my hand", to show someone in the same room as me.
Judging from the viewing statistics of how many times my posts are read, (which includes posters and lurkers), I doubt these files will be seen by more than a few dozen readers, so that would seem to me to count as "fair use", as would quoting snippets from it, so let me "open the batting" with:
Quote:
Introduction - from An Open Letter to Sincere Spiritual Seekers
Literally thousands of very sincere spiritual seekers have come to this Master’s door, or are searching in this direction. Some have been hurt and dismayed with what they have come to discover about the ethics of their teachers. For many, their path’s inability to deliver what it promises brings dissatisfaction, while others are experiencing heavy karmic burdens, loneliness, and purposelessness. Yearning for truth more than ever before and yet fearful of being exploited, they seek refuge. This desire to re-establish trust is understandable and necessary. The Masters of Light and Sound consistently offer to such seekers a timeless method of investigation, through provisional faith, and direct experience.
The link to the file above is public and anonymous (The e-snips website cannot track or record who views internet-publically-shared files, and requires no registration-process to view it). It is my sincere wish, out of genuine love for all fellow seekers of truth, (such as I would consider myself to be), to get to The Truth regardless of what that is, for I believe in my heart of hearts, that it truly exists
So, as expressed to you @EOF, yes I would be interested to learn about the origins of MP if they are in any way different than what is described in this Open Letter, for it truly is an historic moment if all the claims are true (and to date, I haven't seen why they would not be: if the truth has been told all along, and if nothing has been hidden), but as always, I am open minded enough and willing to look at all sides of an issue to get to what that truth "in actuality" is - including the lies that you claim have been spoken about you and others.
From what I understand from your public posts, @EOF, you were present at the inception of MP, having known Joy and Gary even before the path was founded, so I agree with @Violet11, it was arrogant and presumptuous of me to question your authenticity or that of others who have had far more personal experience of the Swatteh Sant Sri Gary than I have: I am on the same simple quest for the truth (and The Truth), that I started even before I joined the MasterPath, and am genuinely intrigued and concerned to know what could have caused such an undoubtedly at-one-time sincere and devoted chela as @End_of_Faith was, for over 20 years, to then change her point of view so radically...
So may we all proceed in our individual paths, in peace and in love.
PM21
Last edited by PeaceMaker21; 11-17-2009 at 02:59 PM..
Reason: Link and typos corrected
Thank you for offering the information from the previous website, Peacemaker. It was interesting, and many questions came to mind as I read it. First, on the subject of determining if Gary is a "true" sat guru:
Quote:
"The experience of this birthing and expansion of consciousness, culminating in realization, allows the student to know, in ever-increasing degrees, that they have found a genuine Master, a Sat Guru."
So if the student experiences expanding consciousness, etc. while on the MasterPath, they are to conclude that it proves Gary is authentic. But I think there are flaws in this logic. The student has obviously been expending effort. They've been devoted to their own "spiritual liberation" and listening to the "sound current". Despite the idea that a master is said to be required in Surat Shabd Yoga, isn't it possible that one's success could be independent of the supposed master? I mean really, he's barely involved with most of his followers on the "outer". What if, instead of imagining Gary's floating head in the third eye, a person visualized something else (the clouds and sky, dead Jesus, or crazy Tom Cruise)? What if they utilized the spiritual practices recommended in MP without knowing of Gary or any other "master"? The same experiences would probably occur. I suppose a controlled experiment would need to be done to prove that. But, case and point according to Gary's own open letter:
Quote:
"Ask any student currently studying under one of these Masters, and ninety-nine percent of the time they will offer an exemplary testimony saluting the merits of both their chosen path and Master."
Wonder why? Maybe because this "sound current" is universal and is available without a self-proclamed master as a go-between? Just a thought.
Also, how is expanding consciousness defined on the MasterPath? What are the benchmarks for the twelve levels? Are they represented by a certain number of years on the path, a certain vision or dream, or just arbitrarily determined by Gary? The control of initiations and evaluation of progress by Gary himself seems troubling. He's not in anyone's head, heart, or soul, though I realize that is what the student is supposed to believe.
For now, just one more question concerning Gary's explanation for membership dues. I love how dues are just for us westerners who probably wouldn't give our 10% "donation" to the guru voluntarily like our spiritually superior friends in India. How does MasterPath's 3-4 million dollar surplus play into this? And the voluntary $400,000 donations Gary receives? Then there's this:
Quote:
"Sri Gary recognizes that the liquidation of certain karmas through membership dues is preferable to the chela actually experiencing the deluge of these effects in one’s everyday life."
As discussed here before, Gary's contention that MP membership dues absolve karma is so ridiculous and self-serving I don't even know where to begin.
The combined salaries of Gary and Joy, who make upwards to $100,000/year a piece (~$200,000 for the household), would probably qualify them as wealthy. Particularly when you consider that MasterPath as a "non-profit" organization covers the cost of their home. Or homes I should say, because there is a guest house included with their "parsonage" or "spiritual retreat". Also, where does Gary stay when he spends the summer in Minnesota? Does he stay at his parents' home, or is there another lakeside "spiritual retreat" there? Anyway, the point is that Gary and Joy must have very few personal expenses and bills since they're all tied into this supposed religious non-profit organization. So their salaries are pretty excessive for people who claim to "live modestly".
Oh, and the "12 to 15 hours of work" Gary supposedly does each day? Doing what exactly?
The open letter to seekers is well written. But much of what is written, (ie. the "earmark" of humility, living modestly, etc. etc.) doesn't seem to jibe with what many have witnessed.
I tried the County of San Bernardino assessor's website and couldn't find the name Olsen on any of the tax records for Mecca Road...there was a 'Sky View Trust'...maybe that's what the Olsens are hiding behind (?)
Today, 10:38 AM [SIZE=5]Shuffler[/SIZE]
Realist
Join Date: Jan 2008
1,077 posts, read 728,798 times
Reputation: 439
Anybody know the Mecca Road address?
I tried the County of San Bernardino assessor's website and couldn't find the name Olsen on any of the tax records for Mecca Road...there was a 'Sky View Trust'...maybe that's what the Olsens are hiding behind (?)
"Oh, and the "12 to 15 hours of work" Gary supposedly does each day? Doing what exactly?" -Violet11
Watering Olive Trees?
Plagarizing the writing of other people can take up quite a bit of time ( although I hear that was even delegated) and, of course, being baked on marijuana can make 15 minutes seem like 15 hours
The property looks pretty austere...according to Zillow it's valued at $184k. Doesn't mean they don't have real estate and assets elsewhere. But, it would appear that they live pretty simply on Mecca Road.
Shuffler, the property is simple, I would not call it austere...but it does have an awful lot of expensive landscaping surrounding it, plus the up keep for that landscaping...and certainly more green than you will see on other properties in the area.
Unless the property is appraised there is no way that Zillow would have a clue as to its value. Zillow can only guess based upon square footage and property size based upon averages in the general area. It can not evaluate structure or property upgrades.
That being said, we are still talking about a shyster claiming he is the Highest being in the whole universe who lives off money donated to him by gullable people wanting him to take over their evolutionary process. Paying 'rent' to yourself using two or more dummy corporate entities so you dont have to pay any taxes is a scam whether the house is worth $200,000 or $20,000,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuffler
The property looks pretty austere...according to Zillow it's valued at $184k. Doesn't mean they don't have real estate and assets elsewhere. But, it would appear that they live pretty simply on Mecca Road.
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Does this Warrant another Mass Debate?
To Shuffler
