Gary Olsen's "Master Path" - anybody familiar?

[allan1015]

Originally Posted by Violet11

Obviously it would be important to note that I do not have ALL MasterPath publications, nor do you Allan. As everyone knows, there have been many editions/versions of the books, introductory profiles, etc. over the years. Therefore, you have not proven e_o_f wrong.

Actually she initiated this by saying I was wrong and she has not proven it. And in close to a dozen posts on the subject we are basically down to She's right and I am wrong and I should accept that because she has more experience.

I stay focused because the game is rigged - folks don't follow through and then spin me as the one not following through. It happens consistently, You folks are like FOX news.

Interestingly I have expressed the exact same assumption - you (the collective you) are avoiding these important questions because you can't answer them, and using minor quibbles to deflect.

For the record I dont consider the facts of if there is Vow of abstinance from drugs to be trivial. Another tactic of course would be to define your questions as amjor and mine as trivial. Obviously you are aware of that.


Thanks for saying Virtually every one, so I have answered some. % wise how you say I'm doing? Perhaps you can actually count them and get a statistic.

I put a good deal of time and effort, there are at least a half dozen of you shooting at me, and I will continue to focus on what I choose.

Many of your 'major' question I don't find appropriate. For example your questions about my personal inner experiences. Or questions that force me to accept a assumption I don't agree with (hows it feel to love a fraud).

But a special late night bonus to you, ask one. Just one of your Major question - but please try to avoid the types I just described as inappropriate.

You're proving yourself to be an obsessed and desperate individual,

It would be interesting if someone could start compiling a list of all the adjectives and character statements made about me, say in the past week.


As an aside - how would you describe the logic of why I am weak as deepcynic puts forth? Would you say its on par with some of the circular and perhaps silly logic that Chelas use? Or do you find it to be solid

Only weak people join a farcical path
MP is a farce
Allan joined MP
Allan is weak

Do you think there are any assumptions there that might be in need of review? any ideas on testing this in some scientific method?

[allan1015]

criminal and accomplice
robot
blind
stuck
needy
weak
do not seek responsility
incapable of thinking
poor damaged ego
frustrated
no accountability
angry
spewing anger
deflecting
misdirection
defender/defensive
no original thought
programmed
no objectivity
delusional/deluded
arrogant
arrogance bordinger on narccism
parrot
no mind
braying
coercing
lack of, no compassion
shiftng the blame
non intelligent
hysterial blindness
rant and rave
clueless
lost
cant hold a coherent thought
cant answer 'simple' questions
cant answer major questons
MORON
opposing
Resistant
Dont read
Dont listen
Willing stooge
zombified
anesthetized
ignorant
reactive
insensitive
disrespectful
complainer
obsessed
desperate

A quick and draft list used to describe/define me in the short few days I've been actively back
No looking for discussion, just thought it might be interesting

[Violet11]

The descriptives used above are all true from my standpoint.

Originally Posted by allan1015

It happens consistently, You folks are like FOX news.

Your "master" is a fan of FOX news, and is probably a thousand times worse than FOX news when it comes to inconsistency and self-serving spin. You should be embarrassed to even be associated with Gary Olsen, let alone admire him and call him "master".

Originally Posted by allan1015

I put a good deal of time and effort, there are at least a half dozen of you shooting at me, and I will continue to focus on what I choose.

Many of your 'major' question I don't find appropriate. For example your questions about my personal inner experiences. Or questions that force me to accept a assumption I don't agree with (hows it feel to love a fraud).

And I will continue to ask you the same questions.

Please show me one example of where I asked about your personal inner experiences?!

I have asked you to produce ONE quote from Gary's "teachings" that exemplifies how "profound" he is. A non-plagiarized quote. Still waiting.

Originally Posted by allan1015

But a special late night bonus to you, ask one. Just one of your Major question - but please try to avoid the types I just described as inappropriate.

First kindly explain what "cut/paste issue" caused you to insinuate I was in Connecticut. No, I'm not going to let it go Allan. I'm waiting.

After that I will happily provide a list of major questions and issues you have been dodging.

[end_of_faith]

Originally Posted by allan1015

Actually she initiated this by saying I was wrong and she has not proven it. And in close to a dozen posts on the subject we are basically down to She's right and I am wrong and I should accept that because she has more experience.

I did not initiate this. I posted a response and you decided to engage in this ridiculous debate over "who is right." I never said that I am right and you are wrong. RE-READ my last response to you. I also never said that you should accept what I say because I have more experience than you.

Originally Posted by allan1015

I stay focused because the game is rigged - folks don't follow through and then spin me as the one not following through. It happens consistently, You folks are like FOX news.

Interestingly I have expressed the exact same assumption - you (the collective you) are avoiding these important questions because you can't answer them, and using minor quibbles to deflect.

There is no game here. The only game that is rigged is the path you follow.

Re: folks not following through: in all of your posts you still have not answered my simple question re: the Bird Flu. Please enlighten us on the estoeric truth in that talk...

No, we're not FOX News. I don't even watch the channel. But FOX News was one of the SOURCES for your master's infamous Bird Flu boondoggle...

Re: minor quibbles to deflect....hmm, you are describing the technique you use in "sharpening your skills" with your best tactic of debate on this thread

Originally Posted by allan1015

For the record I dont consider the facts of if there is Vow of abstinance from drugs to be trivial. Another tactic of course would be to define your questions as amjor and mine as trivial. Obviously you are aware of that.

Again, I never said there was a Vow of abstinence from drugs. Those are your words.

I will repeat for the 3rd or 4th time what I said:

2nd initiation requirement: The chela must be drug-free.

Now, I've changed the word "Vow" to "requirement." Is that better for your bulldog mind masticating a paraphrase to death?

Originally Posted by allan1015

Many of your 'major' question I don't find appropriate. For example your questions about my personal inner experiences. Or questions that force me to accept a assumption I don't agree with (hows it feel to love a fraud).

You think the 'major' questions in this thread are about YOU? Really?

yet, you think it's okay and righteous to insist on ex-chelas sharing their experiences, you think it's okay to tell them to "go crawl back in their hole," you think it's okay to question everything about their past association because they are now denouncing the very thing you love, and don't know. I could go on....

No, Allan, no one on this thread is forcing you to accept any assumptions about anything.... you have us confused for your guru-led path.

I also do not have time in my day to spend going back and forth with you over words you said, not me. But hey, you have your MP materials. Why don't you post exactly what it says re: drugs and spirituality!

have a good day

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by allan1015

Based on postings of MP material by Violet, the fact that I made the 2cd vow a year ago, my position is still:
- There is nothing that says or even implicates one must abstain from all Drug and Alcohol use forever.
- Anyone doing even a modicum of research on tapes and lectures will find that the requirements are not abstinence

In short there is no reasonable basis to say that a Chelas perception is a requirement for abstinence. Which says to me that there would not be a reason to think a Chela should go on guilt trips and self-doubt because they smoked pot because of MP teachings.

Then this would be another sign that your "master" is a fraud. Drugs inhibit conscious control and would never be used by a true spiritual master.

[deepcynic]

Originally Posted by allan1015

but the fact that I feel differently about MP then you I am weak.

Maybe weak is the wrong word.

Naive.

Foolish.

Easily taken in.

Take your pick.

[allan1015]

e_o_f

You are a trip. Here sis the exchange:

Originally Posted by allan

The teaching I know does not demand a cessation of smoking pot, nor a vow to do so, nor a teaching to emulate my guess of Sri Gary's behaviors and life style.

Originally Posted by e_o_f

2nd Initiation on MP Vow: The chela must be drug-free.

guess you missed that last year when receiving your 2nd, huh?

I believe that any reasonable person would find that exchange as you pointing out that my statement was wrong. Reading into it I guess without you actually using the words 'your wrong'

Yes you did initiate this issue by saying, whoops implying, that I was wrong.

Now, I've changed the word "Vow" to "requirement." Is that better for your bulldog mind masticating a paraphrase to death?

Not at all. I see that things must be very simple and very plain for you.

*There is no requirement in any form, as a Vow or promise or a gentleman's agreement, to stop forever smoking pot, using drugs, drinking alcohol, in order to receive the 2cd initiation.

(The requirement is not to be drug free, it is, as best I remember to not be dependent or addicted. )

**There is no reasonable interpretation of of any requirement, written teaching, or recorded lecture that would lead a chela to feel guilt, be guilt ridden, have self-doubts, because they smoked pot.

Now I understand that is not the whole picture about pot smoking. But you clearly and with no doubt in my mind that you 'implied/insuated/said' that I was wrong about my statement, (the one with the *)

It is frustrating as all get up to watch you respond to specific words, to focus in on imprecision of my language and then accuse, via insinuation or directly, of doing exactly what you are doing.

I am utterly tired with you dancing around this, so, I've absolutely no desire to discuss anything else with you, bird flu, daily pot smoking, etc until this matter is resolved.

PM21 if you, as the only one I see with any reasonable position I can trust/respect - can you help me understand what is going on here? I tend to be very linear and straight edge in my thinking. Perhaps there is something more 'organic' or simply a different way of thinking that I am not getting. I truly feel like I am trying pin jelly to a tree to get a straight answer from e-o-f.

The following is simply my attempt to put an end to this lunacy.
Other constructive suggestion are welcomed.

To the best of your knowledge:
Is the statement with the * - correct or incorrect (choose one)
Is the statement with the ** - correct or incorrect (choose one)

If either are incorrect to you have any supporting material (citing a book, a tape) yes or no (choose one)

If yes - can you provide such for review? if yes please do so.

[PeaceMaker21]

@Allan, @EOF -

Moderator cut: deleted

E_O_F -

As the thread's moving so fast, I was about to wind my way backwards, starting with your post, which I received by e-mail just now - but I guess that you have chosen to delete it from the thread for now, for a reason. Although your comment below, yesterday, was directed to Allan, I personally, would still certainly be interested (either on thread or off by DM), in hearing what else you are willing to share about the origins of the path...the thinking and the conversations you were party to, as truly, I am on a quest for hard facts and the objective truth: about myself and the path I am choosing to walk.

Originally Posted by end_of_faith

[to Allan]

...So, while there is a lot that I could share on this thread, I won't because I don't care to have your viewpoint smeared on it.

Re: my reference to you receiving call from him....in the words of your "master": it was facetious. Facetious in the sense that your master only calls when he wants or needs something, or if damage control is in order. It's not about you and your sincere desire for truth and spirituality...it's all about him and his need to be & play "God" in the lives of those who love him.

But on the 2nd point: I would refute that SGO only calls when he wants or needs something, as I have received communications either by letter or phone at key moments in my life, which had everything to do with my need, and nothing to do with SGO's.

Now, to wind it back even further - to the very start - as in the first thing I was ever given by a chela to introduce me to the teachings back in 1995 - let me share (as before with the old MP website that I posted way back, in hopefully a non-copyright-infringing spirit of fair-use), some extracts from the Intro Profile (obviously available for free to anyone on request from the MP website) as someone mentioned it would be good to get this all out in the open:

Initiation Requirements

The primary sacrament of MasterPath upon which the structure and spiritual works are built is initiation, the means by which one's innate and latent spiritual forces are brought into focus to increase soul's awareness of its divine origin. After acquainting ourselves with the Light and Sound principles, we receive an initiation, which reconnects us to the Audible Life Stream, and draws the soul's energies back to the third eye.

As the student (chela) practices the spiritual exercises associated with initiation, God's mighty stream moves in and through one's heart, mind, and soul in ever-increasing waves of love. One gradually adjusts to heightened vibratory rates of expanded soul identification until the Inner Master is met at the third eye. Continued practice of the spiritual exercises expands the melodious current proportionately, as manifesting light grows in brilliance, giving birth to the Sound.

The individual's purity of mind and heart, both inner and outer, determine one's initiation into the eternal mysteries of Sound. Initiation is the most sacred step taken in order to help achieve and procure the higher realizations. The second initiation is requested by the student (chela) after one year of inner practice and investigative study, preparing one for the spiritual transformation. The following five requirements qualify the individual for the second initiation.

1. Freedom from dependency on alcohol or drugs

The Master does not reactivate the Sound Current within any student through initiation if he/she is dependent on foreign substances. Such substances have actually become one's preferred Master. Imposing control and balance versus being controlled are vastly different issues. Moderation in all things is the accepted discipline.

2. A Stable Mind

An unstable mind cannot synthesize nor adjust to the great Sound Current and its associated power flows.

3. The gradual releasing and ultimate cessation of all psychic practices

To desire any contact with psychic entities or power flows apart from the Sound Current is both dangerous and misleading. Attempting to help another before your own emancipation is accomplished only waylays your unfoldment. All psychic practices fall within universal mind power. The sound current and the universal mind power are not compatible, and delving into one always diminishes the other.

4. Making an honest living, and being a burden to no-one

The means of supporting ourselves must be pure and honest. Selling contraband, stealing, or remaining dependent on monies from parents, state, or federal agencies, when you are fit to work and pay your own way, is not making an honest living; this is being a burden on something or someone. Exceptions to this are Social Security, disability payments, pensions, and investments.

5. Must be twenty-five years or older

To initiate one before he/she is capable of assessing one's inclinations toward this teaching is ethically incorrect. A decision to walk this path should be made after one is fully experienced with the world.

Provisional Faith

True faith, according to the Master, is provisional, flexible, non-dogmatic, and open to doubt and reason. Blind faith is death. Provisional faith suggests that one try it first, and then arrive at a conclusion. Experiment with what the Master suggests, experiencing the results firsthand. How can one have faith in something one knows nothing about?

Provisional faith is responsible faith, in that our response to the knowledge we are gathering through the act of faith is vital to our conceptualization of truth and enlightenment. MasterPath purports the spiritual science of proving everything to yourself with an experimental attitude, while working in the laboratory of your own body. Anything short of this process becomes spiritual suicide and forced belief.

The chela comes to know truth by experiencing it through a continuous outpouring of revelations during the waking hours, and through infusions of vast amounts of Light and Sound while both traveling in the dream state and during the daily spiritual practices. Once one hears the melodious Sound Current within the inner planes, speculation ceases, as experience transcends doubt and uncertainty.

more later, as I wind back.

[allan1015]

Originally Posted by Violet11

Please show me one example of where I asked about your personal inner experiences?!

I reviewed 10 pages for your posts and did not find what I was thinking of, I'm not sure if it was another person or what right now.

I have asked you to produce ONE quote from Gary's "teachings" that exemplifies how "profound" he is. A non-plagiarized quote. Still waiting.

It was profound to me, at the time. I did not mean, and did not mean to imply 'it' was unique to Sri Gary. I don't know if assuming that is what I meant is reasonable or your spin, but lets clear that up. There are a couplem fo parts to this response.

Profound is in the eye of the beholder. By which I mean that in my personal experience I am having flashes of insight, perhaps called ah-ha moments, revelations - as I read the books, listen to lectures, or in contemplation of issues (using MP technique).

I am not, never meant to, asserting that the cause of these experiences was specifically or only due to Sri Gary. There could be many reasons, and multiple ones working at the same time. These are some potential 'causes' why I am having these unique and profound to me 'experiences' (at least what I can think of off the top of my head right now):

- The way Sri Gary teaches, speaks, delivers, writes, etc.

- Hearing for the first time

- Hearing for the 100th time and being ready for it, in a different place then I was the first 99 times.

- I've prepared myself via MP practices and more open, and ready/receptive

- I am more in touch with the Inner Master or other aspect of the Inner worlds, true self, etc.

- I am older, in a different space in my life and any teacher I find right now could have the same affect - I don't know and am not asserting otherwise.

I am not asserting that everyone will find this via MP, or that someone on MP cant find the same elsewhere. I am stating that these are my experiences and truth right now as an MP Chela.


Thats part one of this issue. The second part is that the request itself is invalid to me, because it assumes the 'profundity' is at the surface level, that the profound aspects are intellectual and can be seen/replicated by any intellect/mind looking at the same thing.

That is not how I perceive this experience to work, these words,phrases, sound bytes, entire lectures I find 'profound' may be nothing more then triggers, they trigger something in me, open some internal pathway. Others reading them may fall flat, or even laugh, or be confused. In fact I may go back to the same thing and wonder why this struck me so deeply. Or I may reread/hear something that had no special value in the past and bang - send me off.

And just to restate I am not saying that the specific words/sentence are unique to Sri Gary, they may well be found in other writings, said by other teachers.

So, in the end you are asking me to do something that cant be done. Cant do because its based on invalid assumptions, its not how things work, its not what I meant.

As example, I found a lecture on Shabda is Life and Life is Shabda hit me with many insights/flashes that shifted my perspective in a permanent way. It appears you find the same lecture to be utterly flat and devoid of anything profound and I gather even perhaps silly. If I relate another teachings/lecture that had the same affect on me, Ive no doubt that it will have the same affect on you and we will be no different in our end opinions.



I am sorry for the long response - it is an attempt to be thorough and honest. I suspect it might be disappointing in some way that I cant meet your request, but I hope that does not come across as avoiding or double speak.

First kindly explain what "cut/paste issue" caused you to insinuate I was in Connecticut. No, I'm not going to let it go Allan. I'm waiting.

OK, I would have thought it as painfully obvious, but in hearing this again I guess that assumption is mote about my work life and experience then is fair to you. That specific question about weather was asked to another person, unrelated to here. I use notepad++ to compose notes and paste them when done, I can only assume somewhere along the line I didn't delete the last line from one typing session and got it mixed into here. Actually its a guess, I don't really know. Moderator cut: deleted

I didn't ask for a list, I said one.

[june 7th]

thread closed.