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Well, the Catholic church has to wait another century or two, if it wants to be consistent. After all, they've just gotten around to apologizing for the persecution of Galileo and Copernicus.
I don't think it is necessary for salvation. I have never said that. I think that if you do reject the history of Genesis then you have to reject many of the things said by Jesus Christ who believed that the events of Genesis were real history. So, if you reject some of what Christ says then where do you draw the line. It is through Christ we receive our salvation, and if we call him a liar, then what do we say of the Cross?
So, a person can reject Genesis but then they would have a contorted view of Christ and salvation through him.
If Genesis is false why do we need to be saved at all? And from what?
It's interesting that both references were regarding marriage. I will have to study this further.
If you take all the humans and reverse time, then all humans should theoretically merge together and follow the path back to one man and women. If the theory of evolution is true, that is macro evolution, then I suppose that >>>>another species could emerge from a different species and it could be a large population at a time. Since males and females, as it is today, are not historically monogamous. According to both creation and evolution all humans must be traced back to a proto male and female, but in evolution it doesn't have to be a modern version of a human male or female.
In addition, Genesis, is of course, is way more than the story of how God created man, but how he created everything. My problem with the literal view of Genesis is not Adam and Eve. It's what the fundamentalists accept as the age of the earth and the universe. God made the universe and all the physical laws that govern it. In that, I have no doubt. God also provided us ways of measuring time through fossils, geologic depths, and radioactive isotopes. These things can be measured and things investigated really don't jive with the few thousand years age that the fundamentalists believe. It's not even close. And if truth shall never trump truth, and the earth is way older than the fundies claim is represented in Genesis, then how else is the literal translation of Genesis wrong. I don't believe God wants to fake us out.
Sorry, I'm not following your thought in the first paragraph.
I think Nikk said it best in her/his post...it's not necessary for salvation, but if you reject it as literal, it poses a lot of problems with the rest of the bible down the line.
Please keep in mind too, the dating processes are manmade. God gave us elements and tools to work with but what comes out of that is man made and therefore open to mistakes. Take a look at advancements in science and medicine...how many drugs have been recalled in the last year? Look at the revolutionary material we call plastic...it's everywhere! Now it's even causing more damage to our environment than it does good.
Really does anyone know the age of the earth? For a certainty? No. whether the dating processes are acurate, it was 6 days, or 6 thousand years...does it really matter for your salvation? Deny that God created humans as humans as it states in Genesis is a dangerous path to tread.
I don't think the references in relation to marriage are of any significance. The first was Jesus explaining the marriage arrangement in response to the Pharisees testing him on the matter of divorce.
The second about Noah's day, was meant that even though they were warned, the people at that took no notice and carried on life as usual...getting married, etc.
I don't have all the answers...I do have millions of questions. These are some things I've come across so far that have strengthened my faith.
If you are born with an extreme temper, is it okay to hurt your fellow man just because you are predisposed to that behavior? Predisposition or genetic inheritance doesn't give you a free-ticket to sin. While humans are capable of such beautiful things, I think we all have a predispostion for something bad. We are human after all.
Last night I would have argued a counter-point to this, but today I'm backing off what I said. I am going to retract what I posted and repent.
Then you acept that the Flood is true and Noah and Abel (the son of Adam). You accept that man and woman were created at the beginning (which means no millions of years until man appeared on the scene). You accept that Jesus existed before Abraham. Because Jesus said "before Abraham I am".
Good for you Oakback, then you don't have to worry all is good.
BTW how did you get the yellow glow behind you name and avatar symbols?
Sorry, I'm not following your thought in the first paragraph.
I think Nikk said it best in her/his post...it's not necessary for salvation, but if you reject it as literal, it poses a lot of problems with the rest of the bible down the line.
Please keep in mind too, the dating processes are manmade. God gave us elements and tools to work with but what comes out of that is man made and therefore open to mistakes. Take a look at advancements in science and medicine...how many drugs have been recalled in the last year? Look at the revolutionary material we call plastic...it's everywhere! Now it's even causing more damage to our environment than it does good.
Really does anyone know the age of the earth? For a certainty? No. whether the dating processes are acurate, it was 6 days, or 6 thousand years...does it really matter for your salvation? Deny that God created humans as humans as it states in Genesis is a dangerous path to tread.
I don't think the references in relation to marriage are of any significance. The first was Jesus explaining the marriage arrangement in response to the Pharisees testing him on the matter of divorce.
The second about Noah's day, was meant that even though they were warned, the people at that took no notice and carried on life as usual...getting married, etc.
I don't have all the answers...I do have millions of questions. These are some things I've come across so far that have strengthened my faith.
I agree there is little difference between 5 or 6 or 7 thousand. Except science says 4.5 BILLION. Yikes. That's a difference that cannot be ignored. Everything we measure from soil depths, to radioactive isotopes of uranium and measuring the universe by reversing the stars motions to measure how long they would come back together is way into the billions. Even if we use the radioactive isotope of carbon, we can measure back around 40,000 years. Again, nowhere near 6 thousand. Oh, then there's reversing the sun's usage of hydrogen. But spectrograph analysis we can determine it's hydrogen/helium makeup. We know how massive it is and much energy it's putting out. We can decently measure it's age by reversing the process and determining how long did it took to fuse the hydrogen and create it's current store of helium. The fact is ALL these measurements are consistent with each other. And then there is the literal translation of the Bible.
The measurements I described above are God made measurements that are man discovered. It's the power of the atom and the stars. God did give us reasoning and created this magnificent universe along with it's mathematics and physical laws. Again, I don't think God would provide evidence that would lead us astray to this degree.
I know this isn't a Catholic position, so don't quote me on this. Is it possible that Jesus, who's devine nature provided Him with the wisdom of God, but because of His human nature, had the knowledge of man. And His references to Genesis were then based on the limited knowledge of His time. Is that possible?
Hmmm...so science contradicts the bible? Then the reverse must be true, the bible contradicts science. The two beliefs, if contradictory cannot be combined.
Previously, you have stated that the Catholic Church is guided by Holy Spirit. It is the Catholic Church we give credit for compiling, protecting, and providing us with the bible all through Holy Spirit. If the Catholic Church can now state that the two can coexist, aren't they then saying that the bible is fallible and man's science is not? The bible may not give an exact age to the earth or the heavens, but it is clear on humans created as humans...everything according to its kind.
Hmmm...so science contradicts the bible? Then the reverse must be true, the bible contradicts science. The two beliefs, if contradictory cannot be combined.
Previously, you have stated that the Catholic Church is guided by Holy Spirit. It is the Catholic Church we give credit for compiling, protecting, and providing us with the bible all through Holy Spirit. If the Catholic Church can now state that the two can coexist, aren't they then saying that the bible is fallible and man's science is not? The bible may not give an exact age to the earth or the heavens, but it is clear on humans created as humans...everything according to its kind.
It can coexist if Genesis is indeed an allegory. I am hardly the expert, but I am having a tough time with the literal translation of Genesis as you describe it with all the evidence. Science is indeed fallible, but several sciences, all at the same time, stating the same thing is, I am afraid to say, compelling.
It can coexist if Genesis is indeed an allegory. I am hardly the expert, but I am having a tough time with the literal translation of Genesis as you describe it with all the evidence. Science is indeed fallible, but several sciences, all at the same time, stating the same thing is, I am afraid to say, compelling.
Juj,
The age of the earth and the universe is not disclosed in Genesis. If you look in the 1st chapter of Genesis the 2nd verse it says:
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
In fact Genesis 2:3-31 is not discussing the original creation of matter or of the heavenly bodies. It is describing the preparation of the already existing earth for human habitation
The earth was there as formless and empty...we don't know how long it was there before the Spirit of God started the creation of the things on the earth. You are right that the evidence is compelling. I don't deny that and that doesn't make Genesis allegory or fictional.
When we start talking about the creative "days" we can't determine how long those were either. Is it narrow minded to think of them in our 24 hour measurement? Maybe. Is it more appropriate to think of them as 1000 year days? Maybe... knowing that in Psalms 90:4 says a thousand years in God's eyes are but as yesterday. Also in 2 Peter 3:8 that one day is with God as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day. Then again, "a day" could refer to an unknown time period.
One thing the bible is sure about though that does conflict with evolution is the account of how humans were created. There is no way to misinterpret the creation of Adam as a human coming from dust. Likewise the other things on earth were said to be created according to its kind. We have a history that leads us back to Adam and Eve that dates about 7,000 years ago. This is where scientific theories conflict with the creation account in the bible.
So however long it took to get the earth ready for humans is unknown...but we do know that humans have only been around for about 7,000 years (according to the bible).
This has been very helpful for me! I have had to do a little more research and I understand it a little better myself...Thank you!!
Then you acept that the Flood is true and Noah and Abel (the son of Adam). You accept that man and woman were created at the beginning (which means no millions of years until man appeared on the scene). You accept that Jesus existed before Abraham. Because Jesus said "before Abraham I am".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk
Good for you Oakback, then you don't have to worry all is good.
BTW how did you get the yellow glow behind you name and avatar symbols?
I accept that all scripture is inspired and profitable.
Nevertheless, IMO a "literal" interpretation, is in many cases, counterintuitive and unnecessary.
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>>>>another species could emerge from a different species and it could be a large population at a time. Since males and females, as it is today, are not historically monogamous. According to both creation and evolution all humans must be traced back to a proto male and female, but in evolution it doesn't have to be a modern version of a human male or female. 
).
