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Old 10-23-2008, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
2,214 posts, read 5,579,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExPit View Post
You are certain of the existence of God, of His favor towards the role of your religion over others, and that does preclude other interpretations, that does eliminate doubt and the process of reason, and that is prejudice.

Just go and do as He would do. Just be nice and compassionate and helpful when you can, you don't need the organization of religion, you don't need an affiliation at all. To me the words of Christ were so beautiful, so truthful and profoundly so, that that is the best argument for His being the Son of God, the best argument for the existence of God in the first place. Just go and try to live as He would, as much as is practical. That should be enough.
No that is not prejudice because it isnt a 'prejudgement'. I came to my conclusions based on prayer and study. I learned before I decided. But faith is 'being sure' and sometimes it's necessary to rely on it. So I have faith where my beliefs are concerned.

I try my best to live as Christ would, being nice, compassionate and helpful. I really do. But doing that includes following his example in teaching others about God. As to whether it's 'enough' or not, that's not up to me.
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Old 10-23-2008, 05:29 PM
 
4,049 posts, read 5,032,096 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alicenevada View Post
No that is not prejudice because it isnt a 'prejudgement'. I came to my conclusions based on prayer and study. I learned before I decided. But faith is 'being sure' and sometimes it's necessary to rely on it. So I have faith where my beliefs are concerned.
This "Prejudice" is not toward what you have already found out, which would be your "prejudgment," but toward new findings that you didn't take into account when you made your decision.

Once you make your decision to believe, you stop doubting, and reason no longer applies. If you think about science, even if studies show consistent results and a theory is formed out of that, scientists are always trying to update that theory so that our overall world view is more accurate.

Once you have made your decision to believe, your worldview becomes static. You no longer accept new facts to make your worldview more accurate. You are now set in your ways, and nothing new can persuade you, no matter how compelling.
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Old 10-24-2008, 07:38 AM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
2,214 posts, read 5,579,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
This "Prejudice" is not toward what you have already found out, which would be your "prejudgment," but toward new findings that you didn't take into account when you made your decision.

Once you make your decision to believe, you stop doubting, and reason no longer applies. If you think about science, even if studies show consistent results and a theory is formed out of that, scientists are always trying to update that theory so that our overall world view is more accurate.

Once you have made your decision to believe, your worldview becomes static. You no longer accept new facts to make your worldview more accurate. You are now set in your ways, and nothing new can persuade you, no matter how compelling.
If this is not a perfect example of generalization and 'prejudice', I don't know what is. How could you possibly presume and state as fact, things that you have no earthly way of knowing?

Faith in God does not automatically make a person close minded about everything else. Not doubting his existence does not mean I have no desire to learn more about the earth I live on or the people in it. I love science and history. I stay abreast of any new discoveries that are made, while at the same time realizing that in the world of men EVERYTHING is up for debate and new findings my refute those discoveries within the space of mere weeks. Like I said, I'm naturally sceptical.

But that being said, there is something very comforting in the knowledge that at least I know who I am and where I am going. It gives me a sound basis for training my children, for living my day to day life, and for setting goals. When it comes to some things, I can be certain. Without some sure things, I think people feel a bit lost.
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Old 10-24-2008, 09:08 AM
 
Location: England
307 posts, read 479,452 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
This "Prejudice" is not toward what you have already found out, which would be your "prejudgment," but toward new findings that you didn't take into account when you made your decision.

Once you make your decision to believe, you stop doubting, and reason no longer applies. If you think about science, even if studies show consistent results and a theory is formed out of that, scientists are always trying to update that theory so that our overall world view is more accurate.

Once you have made your decision to believe, your worldview becomes static. You no longer accept new facts to make your worldview more accurate. You are now set in your ways, and nothing new can persuade you, no matter how compelling.
I never quite understand why non-believers say (and believe me, this was about a month ago) exactly what you have said. ie...we are static, nothing to learn or aspire to.
This is plainly wrong. For an example, we know the pyramids were built by the Egyptians, that Stonehenge was erected by our ancients ancestors....but that in no way stops us being (me anyway) fascinated and interested in each new discovery about them. The archeologists working on these sites didn't say 'Well, we know who built them, so why bother with them'. They are striving to find out how and why....and it is still an ongoing quest after so many years.
It's the same with a belief in God as our creator. Science just confirms, with its wondrous discoveries, how great our God really is.....even if they won't admit it.
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Old 10-24-2008, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
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Originally Posted by elizabeth7 View Post
It's the same with a belief in God as our creator. Science just confirms, with its wondrous discoveries, how great our God really is.....even if they won't admit it.


A rocket scientist out of Huntsville Al once said to me that 'Science involves faith. And if a scientist doesnt believe in God, it's because he's placed his 'faith' elsewhere'.
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Old 10-24-2008, 11:54 AM
 
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I'm not saying once you have faith you stop being interested in the world. But do you question everything you know? I am agnostic, and very closely leaning to atheism, simply because I am always questioning what I know. I used to be a devout Christian, but as I started questioning, the most clear answers came when I realized that religion is a human construct.

However, I am still looking for empirical evidence of God. And I don't take coincidences or "the world is beautiful so someone had to create it" as evidence. These are speculation, and with no way of testing the hypotheses, I'm not going to base my life around speculation. When God tells me HIMSELF to believe, I will. Not other people in a church, or the writers of the bible. They are human, just like me, so how can they know any better? An all-powerful God that really cares about me so much that he wants to save me from hell would be able to give me a REAL sign to believe. And I'm not gonna take some cloud that looks like jesus as a sign that he is real. Cause I saw one that looked like Santa also.
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Old 10-24-2008, 11:59 AM
 
Location: England
307 posts, read 479,452 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alicenevada View Post


A rocket scientist out of Huntsville Al once said to me that 'Science involves faith. And if a scientist doesnt believe in God, it's because he's placed his 'faith' elsewhere'.
I got caught up in an unintentional debate on a website called picturesof england.com. There were those who professed a belief in God but it was mostly left to me and a lovely lady from Arizona to do the hard work! This man was a firm evolutionist and knew the famous (in England, anyway) Professor Dawkins....an arch evolutionist.

I said exactly the same thing to him. In fact it takes more faith to believe that the beautiful universe, and all living life...most of all our incredible brain, which science acknowledges is the most mysterious thing in that universe....that these all were produced, initially, by a 'big bang' in space.
Of course they won't even go near to answering where that matter came from in the first place.
Faith? You sure need a whole bucketful to believe that!!
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Old 10-24-2008, 12:17 PM
 
4,049 posts, read 5,032,096 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elizabeth7 View Post
I got caught up in an unintentional debate on a website called picturesof england.com. There were those who professed a belief in God but it was mostly left to me and a lovely lady from Arizona to do the hard work! This man was a firm evolutionist and knew the famous (in England, anyway) Professor Dawkins....an arch evolutionist.

I said exactly the same thing to him. In fact it takes more faith to believe that the beautiful universe, and all living life...most of all our incredible brain, which science acknowledges is the most mysterious thing in that universe....that these all were produced, initially, by a 'big bang' in space.
Of course they won't even go near to answering where that matter came from in the first place.
Faith? You sure need a whole bucketful to believe that!!
Everything in nature can be explained without a god. Natural law works. Physics works. God is not needed in the explanation. However, you are free to add God into the equation at the "beginning" of the universe.

Having faith is different than thinking that the big bang was probably what happened. Scientists came up with the big bang based on all the natural laws that can be tested. This doesn't mean they aren't open to new theories, if the evidence is there.

Believing that God created the world is fine, but there is no real evidence. And of course it begs the question: if God created the universe, who created God? Oh, "he was always there"? why cant the universe have always been there? Wanting to believe is not evidence. Hearsay is not evidence. Testable hypotheses in nature ARE evidence.
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Old 10-24-2008, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
2,214 posts, read 5,579,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
Everything in nature can be explained without a god. Natural law works. Physics works. God is not needed in the explanation. However, you are free to add God into the equation at the "beginning" of the universe.

Having faith is different than thinking that the big bang was probably what happened. Scientists came up with the big bang based on all the natural laws that can be tested. This doesn't mean they aren't open to new theories, if the evidence is there.

Believing that God created the world is fine, but there is no real evidence. And of course it begs the question: if God created the universe, who created God? Oh, "he was always there"? why cant the universe have always been there? Wanting to believe is not evidence. Hearsay is not evidence. Testable hypotheses in nature ARE evidence.
Watch your terminology. . Everything in nature can be hypothesized without a God, can be imagined. It can't be explained. There is no explanation why humans get old and die. Only theories. Therefore, scientific explanations are no less based on faith than the 'idea' that there is a creator.

The bible still holds as the world's most influential book for some reason...I think it's because God wants it that way. Forget religion and remember for a moment that living our lives based on bible principals is ALWAYS for the best. People who abide by God's laws are a credit to society.

Your mind cannot comprehend forever or eternity so you count it out? That, to me, is far more close minded than choosing to believe in God, if you don't mind my saying so.
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Old 10-24-2008, 12:41 PM
 
4,049 posts, read 5,032,096 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alicenevada View Post
Watch your terminology. . Everything in nature can be hypothesized without a God, can be imagined. It can't be explained. There is no explanation why humans get old and die. Only theories. Therefore, scientific explanations are no less based on faith than the 'idea' that there is a creator.

The bible still holds as the world's most influential book for some reason...I think it's because God wants it that way. Forget religion and remember for a moment that living our lives based on bible principals is ALWAYS for the best. People who abide by God's laws are a credit to society.

Your mind cannot comprehend forever or eternity so you count it out? That, to me, is far more close minded than choosing to believe in God, if you don't mind my saying so.
Faith is believing something is always true, no matter what. Questioning what we know is not faith. It is skepticism.

Why is living by the bible "ALWAYS good"? There is a lot of murder, rape, slavery, sexism, and many other outlandish, brutal, and disgusting stories in the bible. Living literally by everything in the bible would set the world back 2000+ years. How is that good?

You are assuming I can't comprehend forever or eternity? I don't see where you get this. I am not counting it out. I am just not saying it is a 100% fact, because there is no way to know. You can't test the afterlife. You can't test that there is a God (although it would seem likely that an all-powerful god that cares about saving you from hell would let you test that he exists).
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