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One other note on behavior. If behavior is so important to you , you should focus on your own behavior, not the behavior of others unless it effects you directly. It is actually much better for your well being if you don't worry so much about things that other people do, as long as their actions are not heinous crimes.
We can disagree on this issue, but I have to say again, I love the post right above this one. The yellow t-shirst are pretty hard to miss. I have done volunteer work with my shul, but we did not wear bright t-shirts showing how wonderful we are because we are Jews helping others.
Alright then, let's make all forms of lying against the law. We already have laws that say we can't lie under oath and in the court of law. But what about when my boyfriend lies to me when I ask him if I look fat today? Should I have him arrested? The bible does not say one lie is worse than any other. I don't see you trying to make all forms of lying illegal. Lying causes more harm to society than what your consenting adult neighbors do in the privacy of their own home.
In a pluralistic society that has laws regarding seperation of church and state, it doesn't really matter what you think is a sin. People like you argued against interracial marriage and against freeing slaves, using the bible to support those beliefs. Not everyone in this country is a Christian, not everyone is religious. You have no right to force your religious beliefs on me or anyone else. Like I said previously, sounds like the Taliban and the Iranian government.
As far as behavior, so what? People do all kinds of things that don't effect me, however I don't support those types of behavior for me, but it doesn't mean it should be against the law. Smoking and eating meat for instance. I am against those behaviors, but I am not going to outlaw them. Also people aren't born smoking and eating meat, those things are choices people make, being gay is not a choice. Do you even know any gay people? If you hang around any of them, you will know they do not choose to be gay!
I think you should go to youtube.com and watch "Betty Bowers explains traditional biblical marriage to everyone else". It is very good and so true!
And as for those g-dless ideas and notions, yeah, we know all too well how using g-d has caused so much tragedy in this world. Pogroms, forced conversions, expulsions, lynchings, burnings, crusades, suicide bombings, etc. etc.
Perhaps you misunderstood the bible verse I quoted. "Lie" in that context means to lie down with, to have sexual relations with, not to say an untruth. The scripture is clearly referring to male homosexual behavior as being an abomination in the eyes of God.
Actually people who choose to engage in sexual relations with others of the same gender have more freedoms today than they had in the past, not the other way around. Sodomy for example used to be illegal in most states, but it is not today.
By the way, I do not believe that anyone is born homosexual. Infants, babies, children know little or nothing about adult sexual practices, that's learned later when they are capable of making choices.
Everyone has tendencies towards certain things, some things they like better than other things. But except in rape, nobody forces anyone to physically engage in sexual relations. Generally speaking, the only thing that is different about homosexuals, in my opinion, is that they choose to engage in sexual behavior with people of the same gender.
But, with respect for your rights to believe as you will, my guess is that you'll disagree with what I wrote. You probably feel that you have no choice in the matter, that you are a helpless victim, and therefore have no reponsibility for your behavior, behavior that is seen by many Christians as being immoral.
But I've said enough, perhaps too much already. God has commanded His followers to love everyone, and I do my best at that. It's just that He has also commanded us to refrain from certain behaviors, and homosexual acts are among those.
"Now it is not common that the voice of the people desireth anything contrary to that which is right; but it is common for the lesser part of the people to desire that which is not right; therefore this shall ye observe and make it your law—to do your business by the voice of the people. And if the time comes that the voice of the people doth choose iniquity, then is the time that the judgments of God will come upon you; yea, then is the time he will visit you with great destruction even as he has hitherto visited this land."Mosiah 29: 26-27
I don't know what this is in reference to, or what it means. Are you trying to say I gave a good example of something?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivria66
One other note on behavior. If behavior is so important to you , you should focus on your own behavior, not the behavior of others unless it effects you directly. It is actually much better for your well being if you don't worry so much about things that other people do, as long as their actions are not heinous crimes.
Again, I'm honestly not sure what this is in regards to. Are you responding to someone else, perhaps?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivria66
We can disagree on this issue, but I have to say again, I love the post right above this one. The yellow t-shirst are pretty hard to miss. I have done volunteer work with my shul, but we did not wear bright t-shirts showing how wonderful we are because we are Jews helping others.
Sure, we can disagree on any issue, although I'm not sure what we're disagreeing about here. I think I'm missing your point about your not wearing bright t-shirts. Is it because you're frum? Is that what you're explaining here?
I really am at a loss as to what your reply is trying to say to me.
Justamere10, I am not gay BTW, I just have many gay friends and I used the sin of lying as an example of how stupid it is to legislate religious moral codes. Should we as a society take away basic human rights from all liars? In the bible a lie is a lie. I did not choose to be straight, I just am, I was born this way. I didn't wake up some day and decide to be straight. The gay people I know, just from being their friend, I can tell they did not decide one day to be gay. One of my friends from Japan, grew up in a very small town, without any overt gayness anywhere, and not to mention in a society that is not too kind to gays, realized when he was very young that he liked boys. He didn't decide to be gay, how would he know at such a young age? He was under 10. He has one sister, a mother and he grew up with a father, a normal family. He was not influenced by anybody, he never even met any gay people until he moved to Tokyo at the age of 19! By then he already knew he was gay. He was not exposed to gays or gay culture, and he never heard of gays.
Bergencounty, I was commenting on the post you put up with the photo of Mormons wearing bright yellow t-shirts doing charity work.
One more thing justmere10, you can live your life the way you want to. Your behavior does not effect me, as the behavior of gays does not effect me, it is not you behaving that way, so I just don't understand why you or anyone has to focus on something like this. With all the problems in this world, famine, war, environmental destruction, addictions, natural disasters, racism, sexism, sweat shops, human trafficking, etc., time, effort and money should be targeted towards those issues.
Sorry bergencounty, the other stuff was meant for justmere10, the comment about the yellow T-shirts was regarding the photo you put up of the Mormons doing charity work. Good stuff.
Perhaps you misunderstood the bible verse I quoted. "Lie" in that context means to lie down with, to have sexual relations with, not to say an untruth. The scripture is clearly referring to male homosexual behavior as being an abomination in the eyes of God.
You and many others quote from Leviticus when you are trying to prove that God is against homosexuality. If it is such an authority on what is right and wrong why don't you cite the other laws in that book:
Any person who curseth his mother or father, must be killed. (Leviticus 20:9)
Psychics, wizards, and so on are to be stoned to death. (Leviticus 20:27)
People who have flat noses, or is blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God (Leviticus 21:17-18)
Anyone who curses or blasphemes God, should be stoned to death by the community. (Leviticus 24:14-16)
Good post deepcynic, that is exactly what I was trying to point out when I used lying as an example.
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I don't know what this is in reference to, or what it means. Are you trying to say I gave a good example of something?
