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I have tried to deal with this issue myself. No easy or sure answers. You said you would burn in hell. That is an awful thing to burden yourself with. I can only say that God knows everything about you. I can't say whether homosexuality is something you are born with or not. I can't say it can be changed. God knows everything about each of us and we are accountable for the decisions and actions we choose. I know people who say they have changed. I know people who tried to change and failed despite earnest attempts to change. Just know that you do not have to act on your desires. I have found that to be the easiest thing to do in my life. That may not be the decision you need to make..or can make. God loves you and knows you...even better than you know yourself. I do not know if this helps..hope it does.
So you think that because we've become like Sodom that the Judgement day has been voided?
godspeed,
freedom
If there is a g-d who forgives all then how could anyone be punished? I do not believe in a judgement day. I'm jewish and even though my views are quite agnostic my religion does not believe in the existence of hell. I do believe in honoring thy neighbor and do onto others as they do onto you. I also think that a person gay or straight can be a great neighbor and if they wrong do me or my family, I can beat the hell out of them too.(LOL)
I have tried to deal with this issue myself. No easy or sure answers. You said you would burn in hell. That is an awful thing to burden yourself with. I can only say that God knows everything about you. I can't say whether homosexuality is something you are born with or not. I can't say it can be changed. God knows everything about each of us and we are accountable for the decisions and actions we choose. I know people who say they have changed. I know people who tried to change and failed despite earnest attempts to change. Just know that you do not have to act on your desires. I have found that to be the easiest thing to do in my life. That may not be the decision you need to make..or can make. God loves you and knows you...even better than you know yourself. I do not know if this helps..hope it does.
I am not religious but hearing your view as a religious person; I like it. I commend you on your response without condemning.
Why would a loving God make me suffer like this? I can live a lonely life of celibacy (which is what most ex-gays do), but I can't make heterosexual desires happen that just aren't there. To try and fake it would only put me in position to be a Ted Haggard and thats the last thing I want with my life. I have prayed and prayed and prayed for God to make me straight. Every revival, every church camp, every sunday school when prayer requests were asked I asked for an unspoken, every sunday morning I went to the alter and begged God to make me straight, and it hasnt' happened. If this is God's purpose for me in life...for me to be completely alone, what point is there in even living? I know God works in mysterious ways and there are some things we won't understand on this side of death, but when I think about my life in 30 years...my family will be gone. Who will I have in this world then? I am already in my mid-20s, I still have time left but I am starting to realize that time will eventually run out and sooner than I ever expected when I was a teenager and thought I had all the time in the world. Friends can only take us so far - we were meant as humans to have intimate companionship.
So many good posts. I think that instead of praying that God will make you straight, maybe pray that you come to know and embrace God's will for you. It doesn't sound as though it is God's will for you to be straight. It will be a scary step of faith, but you won't be taking it alone. It will be okay.
If there is a g-d who forgives all then how could anyone be punished? I do not believe in a judgement day. I'm jewish and even though my views are quite agnostic my religion does not believe in the existence of hell. I do believe in honoring thy neighbor and do onto others as they do onto you. I also think that a person gay or straight can be a great neighbor and if they wrong do me or my family, I can beat the hell out of them too.(LOL)
To my fellow Christians, what advice do you give? I can't go to my church minister about this because I'll be excommunicated from the church. I can't go to my friends and I sure can't go to my family. I know on this board i've said some things about gays that I shouldn't have but that is due to my conservative surroundings and me fighting these desires. I apologize to those ive offended.
While I'm not Christian, I do have some things to contribute from my own perspective:
First of all, your strength and courage are tremendous -- and I share the pain and difficulty of 'coming out' (though it's from a different 'type' of closet, in my case ).
It took a long time to realize that I shouldn't be ashamed of myself, or of my religion. I kept my pentacle under my shirt, and I abided strongly by the 'no religious discussion at work' rule.
One day, I decided: no more. I will not hide myself away, nor will I be afraid to speak of my faith, and I will not let bigotry and fear-mongering control my life.
We, each and every one of us, are human, whatever our religion or sexual orientation, and for every hateful, evil bigot in this world, there are a dozen more people who won't even bat an eye, and another dozen beyond that who will rally behind us in our struggles.
I am one of the latter; I stand behind you in peace and support -- and I tell you now that you don't have to walk this difficult path alone. Whatever your struggles, however hard the journey becomes for you, always remember that.
I just have to say a few things. While I understand where you are coming from from a Christian perspective, if you have never had homosexual desires it's more difficult to have a full understanding of homosexuality.
I had other immoral desires which were probably equally as strong as yours, if not stronger. It's all on the same playing field.
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Originally Posted by bchris02
Let's look at it this way. Most straight men are able to distinguish between handsome men and ugly men. Just because you aren't sexually attracted to them doesn't take from the fact many men are very good looking.
I've never met an ugly man in my life, just as I've never met an ugly woman. Bear in mind, I've seen innumerable people. There is not a single human being who is ugly. The Merriam-Webster definition of "ugly" is "offensive to the sight"... and have you ever met someone who is offensive to everyone's sight? I never have. I've met people who were offensive to my sight (to an extent), but that's my opinion and it doesn't make them universally ugly. I know that I have been offensive to some people's sight along the way... if for no other reason than because I'm a long-haired guy... and yet I'm married to a woman who believes I'm good-looking.
So I have to alter your statement- ALL men are good looking, just as all women are good looking. If you (or anyone) want(s) to disprove this, you will have to round up the opinions of everyone else on the face of the earth.
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Originally Posted by bchris02
Some straight men subconsciously take this a step further. Ever wonder why handsome guys have handsome friends and ugly guys have ugly friends?
Stop with the handsome vs. ugly gig. I've had friends over the years, both male and female, who were from all ends of the looks spectrum... from short to tall, thin to fat, all hair colors, all ethnicities, from no tattoos/jewelry to having tons of it, glasses and/or braces or not... from the obscenely popular to the obscenely unpopular... etc.
If any people would consciously discriminate upon looks when choosing their friends, they are losers... plainly and simply.
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Originally Posted by bchris02
I view women in the same way. Just because I am attracted to men doesn't mean I don't appreciate the beauty of the opposite sex. Likewise it would take a miracle of God to change my sexual orientation.
Thankfully, God works miracles.
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Originally Posted by bchris02
What I don't think people who say these feelings are a choice understand is that a homosexual orientation is not about butt sex. In fact, there are some homosexuals who aren't into sex period. It's a frame of mind, a complete emotional, mental, and spiritual attraction to the same sex. It's the desire to love a man on an intimate level, just as straight men love women. I didn't choose this.
Likewise, I didn't choose to have burning desires to sleep with women to whom I wasn't married. I mean, think about this... I know what's the right thing to do... I know that sex is supposed to be for marriage. But then this situation comes along... woman I'm dating says she wants to have sex with me, and deep down I'm thinking "I REALLY WANT IT TOO!". All I would have had to say is the "YES!!!" that I was thinking, and I'd have been able to fulfill one of my deepest desires. I had an aversion to the idea of having sex with someone for whom I wouldn't have been their first, since I was a virgin, but there were a couple of virgin girls along the way who told me they wanted to lose their virginity to me. Words can't describe how badly I wanted to have sex with them... and all I would've had to have done is say "all right!". Within two seconds I could've had something I wanted with almost every fiber of my being.
But I didn't say "all right". I said "no".
Life would have been a heck of a lot easier had I never had those desires... it would've been great if my sex drive had kicked into overdrive only after I got married. But that was not my lot in life. I didn't choose to have the immoral desires... I had to choose to resist them. Every time I had to make that choice, it was not easy... and I always ended up thinking "I wanted her, I still want her, and I could've had her right then and there... but I passed up the opportunity..."
This is why I do not call anybody "gay". In my mind there are no "gay people". There are people who are attracted to the same sex and choose not to resist those desires. This is why I say that they choose a homosexual lifestyle. I burned with desire to commit adultery. You burn with desire to commit homosexuality. Ultimately it's all immoral and it's all sin in the eyes of God. I do understand where you're at. You have to make the choice NOT to sin. We all do. You didn't choose to get homosexual desires but you have to make the choice to do what is right. I can promise you... you'll feel much better about it in the end.
As I said before, many people, especially men in the rural South where I live find homosexuality so disgusting they elevate it into something much bigger than it is. Guys around here are expected to show a hightened level of masculinity. I couldn't mention I was struggling with it without them thinking I was trying to come on to them. Mentioning this to my Christian friends would be the end of our friendship. Its not right that its that way, but its the way it is around here.
I grew up in the rural Northeast and now live in the South. You're probably correct with your evaluation of this situation but honestly, look in the Bible. All have sinned and all fall short of the glory of God. That one statement means that we're all equal with how we have goofed up. I'm sure you could find yourself some friends who wouldn't ostracize you for saying that you're struggling with homosexual desires. After all, what are your friends struggling with? We all struggle with something and if we were all abandoned by our friends for having struggles, none of us would ever have any friends.
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Originally Posted by bchris02
Far worse is attending a church like I attended growing up where the doctrine was that if one was having homosexual desires, they had already been given over to a depraved mind (Romans 1) and was beyond hope. I remember one sermon where our preacher said that homosexuality is worse than murder, and is the deepest depths of satanic perversion. Another time somebody in the congregation shouted, "we should round up all the child molesters and homosexuals and put them in gas chambers!". Now that is pure hate. I am currently and have been for the past 10 months going to a different church, though still a very conservative one.
I agree that it's pure hate. Isn't it amazing how many people show up to church just for the appearances, and are not really Christians deep down? For lots of people, church is their weekly Christian duty and as long as they sit in that pew for an hour, they've got their ticket to heaven.
Many such people are going to get a rude awakening on the day of their deaths.
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Originally Posted by bchris02
As I said before, most of the posters in this thread have been very respectful. As a Christian, having heard much worse all my life, I honestly don't have a problem with somebody believing it is sinful as long as they keep it in perspective. I am still somewhat unsure on the issue.
Read the Bible... specifically the New Testament. Don't listen to what radicals have to say... read it for yourself. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10: "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
"Inheriting the Kingdom of God" is a fancy phrase for "going to heaven". This verse says that the following people will not go to heaven: those who go against God's laws for sexual morality, those who worship other gods, those who have sex with people to whom they're not married, men who sell their bodies for money, people who live homosexual lives, people who steal, people who want too much, people who drink too much, people who tell lies about others, and people who bilk others out of their money.
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Originally Posted by bchris02
That leaves us with Romans 1 and 1 Corinthinas 6:9-10 dealing with the subject. Question is, what was the original intent of the author? What does the original Greek say? And how are we to interpret them? Are they addressing loving, comitted same sex relationships or merely the promiscuous scene that artsyguy was talking about?
Look... the Bible is not up for this fancy interpretation. The original intent of the author was to record the Word of God. The only people who truly care that much about what the original Greek says are Greeks... but if you want to know what it says, feel free to look it up. How are we to interpret the words? As they're written. Don't think that God doesn't guide the people who translate the old texts into modern language.
The words say very clearly that homosexuals are among the people who will not inherit the kingdom of God. This does not distinguish between promiscuous homosexuals and homosexuals in a committed loving relationship. It says "homosexuals". I know that lots of Americans like to interpret everything so that the stuff means what they want it to mean... but let's not do that with the Word of God. I know that I wouldn't want to run into God on my day of judgment and have Him say "I MEANT WHAT I SAID!".
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