If a child dies before they're born will they be able to go to Heaven? (grace, abortion)
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We could substitute it for abusive parents. That would still mean the mother would be in darkness because she aborted the child just so that the child wouldn't have to be abused. The reason being, she has to make a choice to stay in the relationship knowing the child will be abused or take the child out of the relationship and find a better way of life for the child or give it to another family who can love it and take care of it.
I sometimes wish my parents did that with me but I am stronger for being raised in the abusive home. I have strength and character. i can teach others how to overcome that kind of situation.
There are always positives in any situation. Even if it seems there aren't.
I think I'm not framing the crux of my question clearly.
Would it not be preferable, from the point of view of self-sacrifice, to darken one's own soul to prevent the child from darkening theirs?
So would it be necessarily a bad thing for woman to abort a child, not because the child might be abuse or have a bad life, but because the child might become an abuser or a person otherwise unfit for heaven?
Statistically, the longer a person is alive, the greater the chance of temptation towards the unclean, impure, sinful parts of human nature.
It seems to me that the way the rules are written, a dead child has a 100% chance of achieving heaven, while a child surviving to adulthood has less than 100%, due to ever more exposure to temptation and opportunity for failure.
If the goal is to get as many innocent and worthy people into heaven as possible, would it not be prudent to accept a personal darkening of the soul to aid the innocent before their chances diminish?
See, this is why I'm not supposed to apply game theory to religion.
Wait, you believe a baby who is not born yet, or one that is born but isn't yet 40 days old, has no soul?
Yes, true; the fetus and the baby less than 40 days old have no soul, but have the spirit.
The spirit does not see, hear or have a spiritual heart, and its particles have not yet been firmly coherent, and so they will disintegrate and vanish.
While from the age of 40 days and over, the baby will have the hearing, the eyesight and the spiritual heart and he will at that time have a soul.
Animals have spirits, trees have spirits, but man has the human soul.
Yes, true; the fetus and the baby less than 40 days old have no soul, but have the spirit.
The spirit does not see, hear or have a spiritual heart, and its particles have not yet been firmly coherent, and so they will disintegrate and vanish.
While from the age of 40 days and over, the baby will have the hearing, the eyesight and the spiritual heart and he will at that time have a soul.
Animals have spirits, trees have spirits, but man has the human soul.
So you are saying that if the parents of the children who die in the womb go to heaven-- even if the parents don't believe in heaven?
I have had 4 miscarriages and lost a little boy shortly after birth a few years ago-- yet we are Jewish. We don't believe they went to "heaven", we believe that they went back to God and when we pass on, we too will go join them and once again be back to being one with God.
Remember-- not all believe in "heaven", but that doesn't make us any less religious. Just a different religion.
Babies less then one month old, have no value.
Leviticus 27:6
Numbers 3:15-16
The baby less than 40 days old cannot hear, see; but after the age of 40 days he can hear and see; by this age the hearing, the eye-sight and the spiritual heart have been formed for his spirit (which by now can be called as the soul).
The Torah included the commandment of God revealed to Moses, and included guidance and wisdom. This is in the Quran 5: 44
إِنَّا أَنزَلْنَا التَّوْرَاةَ فِيهَا هُدًى وَنُورٌ يَحْكُمُ بِهَا النَّبِيُّونَ الَّذِينَ أَسْلَمُواْ لِلَّذِينَ هَادُواْ وَالرَّبَّانِيُّونَ وَالأَحْبَارُ بِمَا اسْتُحْفِظُواْ مِن كِتَابِ اللّهِ وَكَانُواْ عَلَيْهِ شُهَدَاء فَلاَ تَخْشَوُاْ النَّاسَ وَاخْشَوْنِ وَلاَ تَشْتَرُواْ بِآيَاتِي ثَمَنًا قَلِيلاً وَمَن لَّمْ يَحْكُم بِمَا أَنزَلَ اللّهُ فَأُوْلَئِكَ هُمُ الْكَافِرُونَ
The explanation:
(Surely, We did reveal the Law [lit. the Torah] wherein is guidance and light; according to which were judged those Jewish, by the prophets who surrendered themselves [to God], by the devout worshippers of God and by the rabbis; according to [the Law:] the Book of God that they were bidden to observe, and they were witnesses thereto.
Therefore, [O contemporary rabbis] fear not people, but fear Me [and do not conceal the true statement in the original Law concerning the punishment of the thief, nor the true prophethood of Mohammed], and barter not [the denial of] My revelations for a little gain.
Whoso judge not by that which God has revealed: such are concealers of the truth.)
Third:
The present Torah is not the original Torah of God, but it was we-written to them by the priest Ezra son of Siraeh, following their return from the captivity of Babylon.
This Ezra distorted, altered, omitted and added many things from his own and this serious act lead to their denial of the mission of Jesus and the prophet-hood of Mohammed.
quranandhebrewbible.t35.com/#The_Torah_[or_Hebrew_Bible]_of_Ezra_
Or open the link http://quranandhebrewbible.t35.com/
Then from the list of Contents click on:
The Torah [or Hebrew Bible] of Ezra
So you are saying that if the parents of the children who die in the womb go to heaven-- even if the parents don't believe in heaven?
This has nothing to do with the parents: the fetus and the baby less than 40 days old when die, they will disappear; but if above 40 days they will last forever.
The parents are adults and they are responsible about their belief and work.
The disbeliever will go to Hell, and the believer who works righteousness will go to Paradise in heaven.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikongirl24
I have had 4 miscarriages and lost a little boy shortly after birth a few years ago-- yet we are Jewish. We don't believe they went to "heaven", we believe that they went back to God and when we pass on, we too will go join them and once again be back to being one with God.
As I said the miscarriages will disintegrate and their spirits will return to the ether, while the baby more than 40 days old will last and if dies above 40 days old will go to Paradise in heaven.
All people whether Jewish or not, after death, will go to the next afterlife or the world of souls to be immortal, and the soul will live forever and will not die neither will it return to this material World once again: there is no reincarnation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikongirl24
Remember-- not all believe in "heaven", but that doesn't make us any less religious. Just a different religion.
The religion of God is not different originally and essentially.
See much knowledge about the ether and the next afterlife here:
I believe salvation is a gift from God. If God wants it to happen, the child will.
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA
Yes, all unborn babies are in Heaven.
What scriptural evidence do you use to support this position?
According to the bible, a person must repent their sins (including presumably their original sin) and accept jesus as their savior. Since a baby has not done this, then he should suffer that same fate as me and the rest of the unbelievers.
While I know that many would like to sugar coat the bibles message, there is nothing in it that talks about the age of accountability.
If a child dies before they're born will they be able to go to Heaven?
Sure I don't see why not. It's not like they did anything wrong themselves to not deserve to go to Heaven.
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