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and I say: God's word is true and the word of the atheist is false,
and the testimony of God is the best testimony or witness,
and I believe the story of Noah in the Quran and it is also mentioned in the Bible better than believing the fallacy and sophistication of the atheist.
Why thank you! Very few people give us athesits credit for being sophisticated.
Otherwise though, your attempts to conflate revisionist views of the laws of physics iwith these old myths n order to simultaneously support the myth is pure theist bunko, m'boy!
Consider what would happen if we speeded up the Earth simply to create a faster day. Faster seasons, for one. Insufficient time for all the world's birds to migrate, build a nest, find a mate, breed, raise their young, and retreat back south.
In order for Noah to be, let's say, 10 times older than a typical modern elder, the seasons would thus be ten times shorter. Spring, instead of being lets' say 2.5 mo long (8 weeks) it would now only be 5 days long.
Well, you can apply this to all seasonal issues; the allowable time for a fruit tree to leaf out, bud, flower, be pollinated, develop ripe fruit and shed it would all be reduced to about 2 weeks. Candidly, I assume your "scientist" who was soley focused on coming up with a fantasy to allow for an old Noah didn't consider any of the other consequences.
The effects on global weather of an Earth spinning ten times faster than current would be downright staggering, and as san pointed out, why did it only happen, conveniently, when there was no recording available? Why do all these changes only happen "off the record", and then normal physics and history resume?
It's simple: this is all just revisionism. In other words, an ongoing attempt to change history to deal with the obvious problems of these ancient silly stories. The original authors surely didn't anticipate that anyone would scrutinize them so closely in light of modern understandings, but when we do, ALL the old myths reliably fall flat on their faces. Ka-thuddo.
We "sophisticated atheists" just happen to see it for what it all is. Bunk. Scientifically illiterate bunk, which rightfully belongs in the trashbin.
The explanation:
(We sent Noah to his people [saying:] "I have come to you as a warner [against idolatry], evident [by my obvious and evident signs.]"
"[So] serve you none but God. I fear for you the retribution of a painful day [: of their drowning.]"
Said the chiefs – of his people – who unbelieved: "We see you [Noah] not other than a mortal like ourselves [and you are not an angel], and we see not any following you but the vilest of us [but not the chiefs and the rich], with and obvious purpose [: that you may give them money.]
He said: "My people tell me your opinion: that if I rely on an obvious [guidance depending on revelation] from my Lord, and He gave to me [the prophet-hood as] a blessing from Him, and it has been obscured for you [so you have denied it, then what will your fate be?] and shall we compel you to [recognize] it, the while to it you are averse?"
"O my people, I do not ask of you any recompense concerning the [conveying of the message]; my recompense is only due of God.
I will not drive away those who believe; they shall surely meet their Lord [and complain to Him against me if I drive them away.]
But I see you are a people ignorant [of the final consequences.]"
"O my people, who will save me from God['s punishment], if I drive them away? Will you not then be admonished!?"
"I do not say to you: "I possess the treasuries of God"; I know not the [knowledge of the] Forefuture; and I do not say: "I am an angel." Nor do I say, about those [poor] your eyes despise, that God will not give them any good; God knows best what is in their souls. Surely in that case I should be one of the wrong-doers."
They said: "O Noah, you have disputed with us and prolonged the disputation with us; now bring upon us [the torment] that you threaten us with, if you speak truly."
He said: "It is only God Who may bring it on you if He wills; when – then – you will never escape [from Him.]"
"And my sincere advising will not profit you, if I desire to advise you [more than that I have advised you], if God wills to pervert you [because of your wrong-doing]; He is your Lord, and to His [sentence] you will be returned [after your death.]"
Or do they say: "He [: Mohammed] has forged it"? Say: "If I have forged it, my sin is my responsibility, and I am quit of the sins you have done [: when you have ascribed daughters to God.]"
And it was revealed to Noah [the saying of God:] "None of your people shall henceforward believe but he who has already believed; so grieve not over that they are doing."
"But build the Ark under Our observation and as We instruct you by revelation, and address Me not on behalf of the wrong-doers [that I may pardon them, and do not intercede for them]; surely they are going to be drowned."
So he [and his comrades] were building the Ark; and whenever a council of his people [who unbelieved] passed by [Noah] they scoffed at him. He said: "If you scoff at us [this day], we shall surely scoff at you [in the future], as you scoff [this day.]"
"But soon you will come to know [the consequences of your ridicule, and] to whom will come a chastisement degrading him [in this World], and upon whom there shall settle a lasting chastisement [in the Hereafter.]"
[Thus it was] till, when Our decree [of exterminating his people] came to pass, and the 'clay oven of baking' gushed forth [water], We said [to Noah]: "Carry in the [Ark] of each [kind of cattle, animals and birds] two spouses [male and female] and your family members [: his wife, his three sons and their wives] – save those [: his betraying second wife and his son: Canaan] against whom the word ahs already been decided [by the Lord] – and [carry in the Ark] those who believe", and there believed not with him except a few.
[Noah] said [to the believers]: "Embark in the [Ark!] In God's name [we start at the beginning of] its course and [at the time of] its berthing. Surely my Lord is Most Forgiving [for us concerning our past sins], Most Merciful [to us by saving us from the drowning.]"
So the [Ark] ran with them amid waves [as high] as mountains, and Noah called out to [Canaan] his son who had isolated himself [from the Ark and from his father's comrades]:
"My son, embark [in the Ark] with us, and stay not with the unbelievers [for then you will be drowned.]"
He said: "I shall resort to some mountain that will save me from [drowning in] the water." [Noah] said: "This day there is nothing that can save from God's decree [concerning the downing of the unbelievers] except any on whom [God] has had mercy [by guiding him to believe.]" And the wave came between them [: Noah and his son], so his [son] was among the drowned [in the water.]
And it was said [by the angels]: "Earth, swallow your waters [so the waters went inside the earth, some went into the rivers and seas, and some evaporated]; and sky! be cleared [of clouds, and cease raining]" And the waters [on the surface of the earth] were made to subside. And the affair [of their drowning] was concluded. And the [Ark] settled upon the [mount] Judi, and it was said [by Noah and those with him]: "Away with the people of the wrong-doers."
And Noah called unto his Lord, and said: "O my Lord, my son is one of my family members [whom You promised me to save from the drowning], and Your promise [concerning their saving from the drowning] is surely true [that will not be broken.] You are the Most Wise of those that decide affairs.
[God] said: "O Noah, he is not one of your family members [whom I promised you to save]; this [your request to save your son] is unrighteous deed; so ask Me not about that which you have no knowledge [concerning the deeds of Canaan.] I admonish you that you should not be [one] of the ignorant."
[Noah] said: "My Lord, I take refuge with Thee, lest I should ask Thee for that of which I have no knowledge, and unless Thou forgive me and have mercy on me, I should indeed be of those who lose [in the Hereafter.]"
[Then after the ship settled on the mountain,] it was said [by the angels]: "O Noah, descend [from the mountain to the plain land] in safety [granted] by Us, and blessings on you and on [some] nations of those [of the black and yellow races] who are with you [in the Ark],
but [some other] nations [in other countries of the earth that the deluge did not reach], We shall allow them to enjoy prosperity [with wealth and children in the life of the World] and then there will touch them from Us a painful torment [according to their association and infidelity.]
These [stories and tidings] are [some] of the tidings of 'the Unseen' which We reveal to you [Mohammed]; you did not know them, neither did your people, before this [revelation]; so be patient [concerning the hurt of your people, O Mohammed; as was Noah patient concerning the hurt of his people]; surely, the [best] final sequel will be for those who ward off [God's punishment by obeying Him.])
I think you had better face the fact that as a book of science your Quran is totally useless.....Nothing you have gotten out of it so far is even good science fiction...
I think you better abandon your atheism and believe in God alone without associate, and work whatever righteous work and charity you can work; or else you will sooner or later know Who is God: either in this World or in the next afterlife.
And let not the pride and your party prevent you from being wise and believe, or else you will lose.
If your beliefs also include an earth that is only a few thousand years old this concept of very short days gradually turning into longer days should be observable in modern times after watches were invented but we're not seeing any evidence of such a phenomenon or any explanation of why it should happen. The Bible seems to describe a very sudden transition from people living almost a thousand years to less than a hundred which would mean that the faster spinning of the earth to a much slower spinning should have happened very quickly and then stabilized.
This whole idea is truly ridiculous and has no merit whatsoever.
Did I say the earth is only a few thousand years old?
Moreover, was the earth five thousand years ago (which is about the time of Noah) like the earth now?
This is concerning its central heat, its day duration, and its lunar month.
It can't be so; because the earth is continuously losing heat by the heat radiation and the erupting of volcanoes, in addition to the hot gases emerging (and now extracted like the natural gas) from it in large quantities.
And obviously, a hot earth cannot spin and move like an earth colder than the past.
Moreover, a sudden major change in life span, which followed after the deluge of Noah, cannot be disproved only because some does not like the story of Noah.
Any denial and insisting on such denial, without even any indication to such denial, is the ridiculous.
I think you better abandon your atheism and believe in God alone without associate, and work whatever righteous work and charity you can work; or else you will sooner or later know Who is God: either in this World or in the next afterlife.
And let not the pride and your party prevent you from being wise and believe, or else you will lose.
Your threats are bouncing off me like water off a ducks back. It is the religious that are overburdened with pride....So much so that they can never admit they are wrong....What party do you think I belong to? The only parties I attend are where there is dancing, alcohol, ganja and good times.
My post in response to your "billions" comment indeed raised a serious question about your original explanation as to why Noah lived 950 years but other people after him do not. Your explanation is that it was because the Earth and the sun were hotter and faster than today. You also stated in a later post that the length of a day in Noah's time might have been only 6 hours long. However, using your original statements regarding the decrease of human longevity, I stand by my statement that the length of Noah's day would have been only 1.64 hours long as based on your own explanation. I also stand by my statement that using the lunar cycle to represent a "year" (or rather a period of time) of aging to arrive at 950 "years" would in reality be about 65 solar years. Noah may have been considered very old in his day, but he would not have been any older than people today.
I agree that the Earth's rotation has indeed slowed down in the course of its existence. And yes, that would be over the slow course of billions of years. But to say that the Sun and Earth cooled down and the speed slowed down from a 6-hour day to a 24-hour day in a matter of only 5000 years, do you really think that makes scientific sense? Remember, you're the one claiming the laws of science validate and prove your conclusion. Further, your conclusions are NOT based on the Koran, but are based entirely on what Mohammed-Ali Hassan as-Hilly claims to be scientific explanations. It also appears he has tried to use the Koran in order to support his views.
First of all, the title of the interpreter of the Quran and the Bible is not as-Hilly, but al-Hilly. So his name is Mohammed-Ali Hassan al-Hilly.
The late interpreter of the Quran and the Bible said that the earth core has cooled down by time because of the heat radiation, the volcano erupting and the large quantities of hot gases emerging from the earth, like the natural gas which is extracted in large quantities.
Therefore, the earth is cooling down continuously; this means the day has elongated, which means in the past the day was not 24 hours;
and he said it might be 6 hours only at the time of Noah, then the earth cooled down more following the deluge of Noah, which lead the lives after the deluge became tens of years in comparison to hundreds of years before the deluge, as is this obvious in the Torah: the Book of Genesis; and in the Quran, it is stated that Noah lived 950 years among his people.
The late interpreter, Mohammed-Ali Hassan al-Hilly, did not relate this to the slowing sun in spinning around itself, but it was only my deduction.
In my post (that was) no. 42 page 5, I gave the Quranic ayat that tells about the lunar calendar.
But now, I see this reply has been deleted: "This message has been deleted by ptsum. Reason: Off-topic!!"
This you find between replies 43 and 44 on page 5.
So they delete what they like, which included many ayat of the Quran related to this discussion.
And yes, I think the calculation was according to the lunar calendar.
The solar and the lunar calendar:
Whatever the year become short or long, it is divided into twelve months.
This is in the Quran 9: 36
إِنَّ عِدَّةَ الشُّهُورِ عِندَ اللّهِ اثْنَا عَشَرَ شَهْرًا فِي كِتَابِ اللّهِ يَوْمَ خَلَقَ السَّمَاوَات وَالأَرْضَ مِنْهَا أَرْبَعَةٌ حُرُمٌ ذَلِكَ الدِّينُ الْقَيِّمُ فَلاَ تَظْلِمُواْ فِيهِنَّ أَنفُسَكُمْ
The explanation:
(To God, the number of months is twelve months by God's ordinance in the day when He created the heavens and the earth. [: the planets of the solar system including the earth]
Four of them are inviolable:
that is the religion [of Abraham] the guardian [of his followers and sons.]
So wrong not yourselves in them [by transgressing on people.])
------------------------------------------------------
This obviously speaks about the lunar months; because the "four inviolable months" are lunar months by name: this is for the cause of the pilgrimage and preserving the kind of the chasing animal.
And it may be the age of Noah is given in lunar calendar!
Anyhow the difference between the solar and the lunar year is 11 days: each 300 solar years equal 309 lunar years (excess of 9 years)
This is in the Quran 18: 25
وَلَبِثُوا فِي كَهْفِهِمْ ثَلَاثَ مِائَةٍ سِنِينَ وَازْدَادُوا تِسْعًا
The explanation:
(So they tarried in their cave:
three hundred years [according to the solar calendar],
and nine more [according to the lunar calendar].)
-----------------------------------------------------
If we consider the solar calendar: the day duration as well as the year duration have now become longer. In the past both the day and the year were shorter than the present day and year.
Moreover, when the earth has become slower in spinning around itself, then its dragging effect on the moon to circle around it in anti-clockwise direction, has also decreased leading the moon month to be longer than before.
Time keeps on tickin, tickin, tickin, into the future....
We're certainly placing a lot of hope on this cookoo theory aren't we? When you simply calculate backwards though, this would still only produce a day or year that was microscopically different, but again, to account for a man being ten times older than now would require the Earth spin ten times faster. Impossible, and with massive dangerous and catastrophic consequences. but, since you insist, let's review:
From Astrophysics Review:
"The Earth's day has increased in length over time. The original length of one day, when the Earth was new about 4.5 billion years ago, was about six hours as determined by computer simulation. It was 21.9 hours 620 million years ago as recorded by rhythmites (alternating layers in sandstone). This phenomenon is due to tides raised by the Moon which slow Earth's rotation. Because of the way the second is defined, the mean length of a day is now about 86,400.002 seconds, and is increasing by about 1.7 milliseconds per century (an average over the last 2,700 years)."
Let's see now; 1.7 milliseconds PER CENTURY calculated backwards for 5000 years [Noah's supposed time], which is 50 centuries = 0.0017sec X 50 = a massive 0.085 seconds slower ( longer) now than when Noah built the supposed Ark. Your six hour day was back 4.5 BILLION years ago! A day of only 2.4h (ten times faster) never occurred, NEVER! Ooooops!
Please... do a little reading and thinking before making these assumptive statements! It's real easy now, what with the Internet and all...
This is of course all totally absurd, and anyone who proposes it as a simple explanation for Noah's age is really grasping at peculiar straws.
And anyhow, it still makes Noah's actual age, in modern day years exactly the same. The problem still remains; no 95 year old guy is going to be able to manufacture a massive barge with no prior major ocean vessel construction experience, no modern materials (glues, bolts, fasteners etc.) to produce a vessel capable of holding 600 million animals*, or even the incorrect 35,000, for 18 months in stormy weather.
(* another simple calculation given the now-known 30 million types of animal on this planet)
So this is all a specious argument at best, like arguing about how many sand fleas could live on the head of a camel's nose.
So... in conclusion: if there even were a Noah, he did not, in modern day years, or even in the slightly (0.085 second) shorter years back then, live to be 950 years old.
This was all an allegorical myth, designed to instill fear into the illiterate and superstitious folk of the day to ensure their disciplined obedience to The Church. No other explanation required.
First of all, the title of the interpreter of the Quran and the Bible is not as-Hilly, but al-Hilly. So his name is Mohammed-Ali Hassan al-Hilly.
The late interpreter of the Quran and the Bible said that the earth core has cooled down by time because of the heat radiation, the volcano erupting and the large quantities of hot gases emerging from the earth, like the natural gas which is extracted in large quantities.
Therefore, the earth is cooling down continuously; this means the day has elongated, which means in the past the day was not 24 hours;
and he said it might be 6 hours only at the time of Noah, then the earth cooled down more following the deluge of Noah, which lead the lives after the deluge became tens of years in comparison to hundreds of years before the deluge, as is this obvious in the Torah: the Book of Genesis; and in the Quran, it is stated that Noah lived 950 years among his people.
The late interpreter, Mohammed-Ali Hassan al-Hilly, did not relate this to the slowing sun in spinning around itself, but it was only my deduction.
And yes, I think the calculation was according to the lunar calendar.
And it may be the age of Noah is given in lunar calendar!
Anyhow the difference between the solar and the lunar year is 11 days: each 300 solar years equal 309 lunar years (excess of 9 years)
If we consider the solar calendar: the day duration as well as the year duration have now become longer. In the past both the day and the year were shorter than the present day and year.
Moreover, when the earth has become slower in spinning around itself, then its dragging effect on the moon to circle around it in anti-clockwise direction, has also decreased leading the moon month to be longer than before.
Thank you for pointing out the name spelling error. It was unintentional.
Ah, so then the heat vs speed of the Earth concept is your idea? Look, I understand the concept of the lunar year. More accurately, it is based on twelve lunar cycles or phases within the span of a solar year. Perhaps you're misunderstanding me though. I'm talking about the cycle from one full moon to the next full moon (about 29.5 days) could have been what was used to come up with 950 "years". Not measured a lunar calendar, but by lunar phases. I'm not saying that's what was used, but it does closely fit with explaining how 950 "years" would actually equal 65 solar years. And there's no question that lunar phases were considered an important measure of time. We could get into discussing the origins of the 12-month calendar, but that's a completely different subject.
Regardless, you did indeed say that Mohammed-Ali Hassan al-Hilly wrote that a day in Noah's time might have been only 6 hours long. In other words, your speculations are still based on using his speculation. Since you've used his speculations as a reference, you need to look at all he wrote. But instead, you're taking unrelated bits and pieces from here and there in order to come up with a wild idea like putting together a jigsaw puzzle using pieces from different unrelated puzzles. To understand if his points are valid, you need to look at other things he wrote that he uses to "justify" his ideas. That means looking at what he also says about Venus and Mars which he uses as examples to relate to his view of the Earth.
Clearly, there are no cities, buildings, trees, people, etc., on Mars or Venus. And yet he was convinced it is true. Those are major errors in his writings, but they were used to support his notions about the Earth. If he made such gross errors regarding those planets, then his writings are likely to contain other major mistakes. When viewed in their totality (not just bits and pieces) his ideas fall apart as a whole and fail to produce anything resembling "scientific evidence". Unfortunately, that also means the foundation of your own idea falls apart as well. And you can't use bits and pieces from the Koran either to support your views. Isn't it suppose to be your views fitting with the Koran, not the Koran fitting your views?
Your knowledge about science seems very limited and based more on a lot of misunderstanding. You said, "Moreover, when the earth has become slower in spinning around itself, then its dragging effect on the moon to circle around it in anti-clockwise direction, has also decreased leading the moon month to be longer than before." You're partly right, but that's not why the Moon is gradually taking longer to circle the Earth. The Moon is drifting away from the Earth at a rate of about 1.6 inches (4 centimeters) per year. The farther it is from the Earth, the longer the "month" would be. It has nothing to do with the heat of the Earth. It has everything to do with the degree of gravitational attraction between the two. Eventually in the far distant future, perhaps billions of years from now, the Moon will completely escape the Earth's gravitational pull and drift off by itself in space.
Think about this for a moment. If the moon is moving away at a rate of 1.6 inches per year, that means 5000 years ago it was (roughly) 666 feet (203 meters) closer to the Earth. Not a vast noticable difference. The amount of time it would take for the Moon to make a complete orbit around the Earth 5000 years ago would've been only a slight difference from what it is today. That certainly doesn't fit in with the 6-hour Earth day you've suggested because the Moon also would have been orbiting the Earth at a blistering speed to appear "stationary" allowing for a 12-month lunar calendar. But the rate of recession tells a different story.
Common sense should tell you that the Earth was not spinning so fast that a day would've been only 6 hours long a mere 5000 years ago. If you were talking about millions of years ago, or a billion years ago, then sure, the Earth was probably spinning much faster and days would've been shorter. But 5000 years ago? That's like a drop in the bucket in comparison to a billion or so years.
Thank you for pointing out the name spelling error. It was unintentional.
Ah, so then the heat vs speed of the Earth concept is your idea? Look, I understand the concept of the lunar year....
Look NightBazaar,
I intend to answer your points; but in fact you are answering more quickly.
So I am coming to your points.
Here I shall reply to this point: the heat vs speed is not my idea; it is the words of the interpreter.
I mentioned the decreased solar year as a factor to the age of Noah, the thing that the late Mohammed-Ali Hassa al-Hilly did not correlate. He correlated only the short day duration as the cause of the long age of Noah.
The spinning of the sun as being related to its heat is mentioned elsewhere in his book, but not in correlation to Noah's long life.
Therefore, the things that are undergoing such changes are:
The slowing of the earth spinning --> leading to lengthening of the day duration.
As the earth cools down, it approaches towards the sun: the distance between the earth and the sun will be reduced.
The sun is also losing its heat gradually --> leading to lengthening of its day.
and this in turn will lead to the planets slowing in orbiting the sun.
Such factors are intermingled: the planet slows down in circling around the sun, and at the same time it is getting nearer to the sun, and its orbit will decrease in distance.
the loss of the earth heat may be faster than the sun losing its heat?
As the earth slows down, the lunar cycle will be longer by time, and the moon will get farther from the earth.
At last the earth will stop its axial rotation, and the moon will be fixed as a full moon.
....What party do you think I belong to? The only parties I attend are where there is dancing, alcohol, ganja and good times.
Whoa. How sad. IMHO what a pointless, empty life...
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Time keeps on tickin, tickin, tickin, into the future....
from wiki
Seemingly 
