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Old 07-16-2009, 10:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
Thank you for recognizing that scientists are only human who can and to make mistakes and correct their errors. That can be especially true when it comes to understand certain things that we have little information about. But don't put scientists out on that limb alone. All people can and do make mistakes, including you and I. No one, not you, not me, not anyone, has all the answers to everything. We go through a process of learning new things from the time we're born until we die. There are no exceptions. But that doesn't mean we know nothing at all. We've learned much more about our planetary neighbors than ever before. We certainly don't lnow everything - there are still many new surprises - but there are some things that are known.
Right, correct and true.

And in addition, the interpreter himself may make mistakes, and even Moses, Jesus and Mohammed might have done mistakes, but these have the revelation to correct their mistakes.

And in fact, God – be glorified – allowed that they made some mistakes to expose that they are only human beings who may commit some mistakes; but only the inspiration and revelation is infallible, and God alone is the Infallible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
So I would respectfully say to you, do not sweep aside the importance of Venus by suggesting it needs its own thread.
When I said Venus needs its own thread, I only meant to say: there is much to be explained about Venus, to prove many things that occurred there, and to explain some mistakes that have been thought to be true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
Important Question #1:
Are you telling me you believe if we were to land on the surface of Venus today, right now, we would find towns, houses, clubs and shops as well as furniture, property, and burnt trees on Venus?
Is this "finding towns, houses, clubs and shops as well as furniture, property and burnt trees"; is this an aya of the Quran which is certainly infallible?

No, it isn't. But the interpreter said this to explain that Venus had been inhabited, then its inhabitants have been exterminated, when Venus stopped its axial rotation, and its day and night have been everlasting there on Venus.

Moreover, the interpreter was an inspired man [although he did not graduate at any school], and he heard the inspiration from an angel (and from Jesus), and was given the understanding of many subjects.

But evenso, he added many new ideas in the successive editions of his book, and found better words later on, according to what God made him understand in many ways.

In addition, when Venus slowed down in spinning around itself, until it stopped its axial rotation, then the night has been everlasting on one side, while the day has become everlasting on the side facing the sun.

But there are zones on Venus, that are milder in suffering the catastrophic circumstances: like the dawn zone and the afternoon zone. In such zones you may find such dead towns, demolished houses, miserable clubs and shops …etc. and all these are empty, vacant and devoid of any living being.

Another point is that Venus has recently stopped its axial rotation, so in comparison to Mercury which stopped spinning long time ago before Venus: so Mercury has more wild catastrophic changes to the extent that Mercury has lost its atmosphere, while Venus still has its thick smock in its atmosphere; therefore the changes that occurred on Venus are more recent and relatively milder than Mercury which passed such phase similar to the present Venus phase.

So; yes, I do believe this almost is present on Venus now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
I did not say Venus is the same size as Earth, I said it is about the same size. Its size, mass, density and volume are similar to Earth which is why it is sometimes called "Earth's twin". No other reason. The diameter of Earth is 12742 km (7917.5 miles). The diameter of Venus is 12100 km (7518.5 miles). Venus is slightly smaller than the Earth but not by much.
Is it logical that the planets took their orbits around the sun haphazardly, without following any rule? So that Mercury became the nearest one to the sun, and Venus the second, and the Earth the third, …etc; and all this without following any rule to arrange themselves in their orbits of various distances from the Sun?

Therefore, when Astronomers say: yes, without following certain rule! We know then they are wrong:

The planets are arrayed in their different orbits according to their masses (or sizes) and their internal heat.

So the smallest planet will be nearer to the Sun, and the largest will be the farthest from it.

ÕÝÍÉ ÌÏíÏÉ 1
Then from the list of Contents, click on:
Diagram 3 (illustrating that the repelling force repels the big object more than the small)


Moreover, whenever a planet loses some of its heat, it will get nearer to the Sun, and as much as the planet is still hot, it will get away from the Sun relative to others.

So according to this rule, we realize that the arrangements of the planets away from the Sun are like this:

Mercury is the smallest and nearest to Sun.
Venus is larger than Mercury and smaller than Earth.
Earth is larger than Venus and smaller than Mars.
Mars is larger than Earth and smaller than Jupiter, and as such the rest of the planets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
As for Mars, the diameter of Mars is about 6800 km (4225.3 miles) making it only 53% the size of the Earth. It's not larger than the Earth. It's much smaller. I could give you numerous reasons why we know Mars is smaller, but I'll give you a simple current example.

Not too long ago, the stationary Phoenix Martian Lander landed close to the northern polar ice cap of Mars, and took numerous photos and dug holes in the soil and found evidence of water ice. Getting the Phoenix to land where it did was not done by guessing or magic. Very precise calculations had to be made to take it from the Earth to land where it did. All those calculations included knowing the size of Mars. If Mars were larger than the Earth, then those calculations would have put the Phoenix in a completely different location, perhaps landing in a canyon, or possibly even missing Mars altogether.
I'm sorry to disagree with you, but Mars is in fact much smaller than Earth.
I don't know about their calculations, but there must be some practical way of their landing, which they have learnt form their many failures in the past, so they corrected all that practically to serve their correct landing on Mars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
Important Question #2:
Do you still believe that the size of Mars is smaller than the Earth?
Yes, I still believe Mars is larger than Earth, and I have many hints for this:

1- The day and night on Mars are longer than the Earth day.
2- The sunset afterglow lasts more (about 2 hours) than that of the Earth (about 1 1/2 hours).
3- Many mountains on Mars are even higher than the highest mountains of the Earth.
4- In addition to the position of Mars after the Earth in distance away from the Sun.

I think they have some mistakes concerning many things on Mars, which they may correct in the future, and they will discover the people of Mars.

ÕÝÍÉ ÌÏíÏÉ 1
Then from the list of Contents, click on:
An anticipated meeting between the inhabitants of Earth and the inhabitants of some other planets

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
Like it or not, both of these "Important Questions" are indeed relevent as to whether or not Mohammed-Ali Hassan as-Hilly's claims are true or not. If his claims are not true, then your concepts are entirely based on someone else's mistakes which are not scientific facts.
And again I say he is al-Hilly which in Arabic means "the Hilly"; he lived in Hilla about 100 km south of Baghdad; Hilla is near the ruins of the famous Babylon city. The interpreter died at 1991.

He explained the mysterious ayat of the Quran (the meaning of such mysterious ayat is only known by God, and none of people including the clerics know their explanation and implication), and he was acquainted about the Torah and the Gospel.

The Disagreement of the

Last edited by eanassir; 07-16-2009 at 11:00 PM..
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Old 07-16-2009, 11:24 PM
 
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The story of Noah in the Quran/ 4

God – be glorified – said in the Quran 71
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم . إِنَّا أَرْسَلْنَا نُوحًا إِلَى قَوْمِهِ أَنْ أَنذِرْ قَوْمَكَ مِن قَبْلِ أَن يَأْتِيَهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ . قَالَ يَا قَوْمِ إِنِّي لَكُمْ نَذِيرٌ مُّبِينٌ . أَنِ اعْبُدُوا اللَّهَ وَاتَّقُوهُ وَأَطِيعُونِ . يَغْفِرْ لَكُم مِّن ذُنُوبِكُمْ وَيُؤَخِّرْكُمْ إِلَى أَجَلٍ مُّسَمًّى إِنَّ أَجَلَ اللَّهِ إِذَا جَاء لَا يُؤَخَّرُ لَوْ كُنتُمْ تَعْلَمُونَ . قَالَ رَبِّ إِنِّي دَعَوْتُ قَوْمِي لَيْلًا وَنَهَارًا . فَلَمْ يَزِدْهُمْ دُعَائِي إِلَّا فِرَارًا . وَإِنِّي كُلَّمَا دَعَوْتُهُمْ لِتَغْفِرَ لَهُمْ جَعَلُوا أَصَابِعَهُمْ فِي آذَانِهِمْ وَاسْتَغْشَوْا ثِيَابَهُمْ وَأَصَرُّوا وَاسْتَكْبَرُوا اسْتِكْبَارًا . ثُمَّ إِنِّي دَعَوْتُهُمْ جِهَارًا . ثُمَّ إِنِّي أَعْلَنتُ لَهُمْ وَأَسْرَرْتُ لَهُمْ إِسْرَارًا . فَقُلْتُ اسْتَغْفِرُوا رَبَّكُمْ إِنَّهُ كَانَ غَفَّارًا . يُرْسِلِ السَّمَاء عَلَيْكُم مِّدْرَارًا . وَيُمْدِدْكُمْ بِأَمْوَالٍ وَبَنِينَ وَيَجْعَل لَّكُمْ جَنَّاتٍ وَيَجْعَل لَّكُمْ أَنْهَارًا . مَّا لَكُمْ لَا تَرْجُونَ لِلَّهِ وَقَارًا . وَقَدْ خَلَقَكُمْ أَطْوَارًا . أَلَمْ تَرَوْا كَيْفَ خَلَقَ اللَّهُ سَبْعَ سَمَاوَاتٍ طِبَاقًا . وَجَعَلَ الْقَمَرَ فِيهِنَّ نُورًا وَجَعَلَ الشَّمْسَ سِرَاجًا . وَاللَّهُ أَنبَتَكُم مِّنَ الْأَرْضِ نَبَاتًا . ثُمَّ يُعِيدُكُمْ فِيهَا وَيُخْرِجُكُمْ إِخْرَاجًا . وَاللَّهُ جَعَلَ لَكُمُ الْأَرْضَ بِسَاطًا . لِتَسْلُكُوا مِنْهَا سُبُلًا فِجَاجًا . قَالَ نُوحٌ رَّبِّ إِنَّهُمْ عَصَوْنِي وَاتَّبَعُوا مَن لَّمْ يَزِدْهُ مَالُهُ وَوَلَدُهُ إِلَّا خَسَارًا . وَمَكَرُوا مَكْرًا كُبَّارًا . وَقَالُوا لَا تَذَرُنَّ آلِهَتَكُمْ وَلَا تَذَرُنَّ وَدًّا وَلَا سُوَاعًا وَلَا يَغُوثَ وَيَعُوقَ وَنَسْرًا . وَقَدْ أَضَلُّوا كَثِيرًا وَلَا تَزِدِ الظَّالِمِينَ إِلَّا ضَلَالًا . مِمَّا خَطِيئَاتِهِمْ أُغْرِقُوا فَأُدْخِلُوا نَارًا فَلَمْ يَجِدُوا لَهُم مِّن دُونِ اللَّهِ أَنصَارًا . وَقَالَ نُوحٌ رَّبِّ لَا تَذَرْ عَلَى الْأَرْضِ مِنَ الْكَافِرِينَ دَيَّارًا . إِنَّكَ إِن تَذَرْهُمْ يُضِلُّوا عِبَادَكَ وَلَا يَلِدُوا إِلَّا فَاجِرًا كَفَّارًا . رَبِّ اغْفِرْ لِي وَلِوَالِدَيَّ وَلِمَن دَخَلَ بَيْتِيَ مُؤْمِنًا وَلِلْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَالْمُؤْمِنَاتِ وَلَا تَزِدِ الظَّالِمِينَ إِلَّا تَبَارًا

The explanation:

( In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

We sent Noah to his people, [saying to him:] "Warn your people [against idolatry], before there come on them a painful chastisement."

[Noah] said: "My people, I am a warner [sent] to you [by God], manifesting [the proofs and evidences to you.]"

"That you should worship God [alone], ward off [disobeying] Him and comply to my [instructions.]"

"And He will forgive you your sins, and defer you to a stated term; God's term – when it comes – cannot be deferred, did you but know."

[Noah] said: "My Lord, I have called unto my people night and day."

"But my calling has only increased their flight [from me.]"

"And whenever I call them [to believe], that You may forgive them [their sins], they thrust their fingers in their ears, veil their [heads] with their garments and persist [in their refusal] and grow arrogant."

"Then I called them openly [after calling them secretly.]"

"And I proclaimed to them in public, and kept up calling them."

"And I said: "Ask forgiveness of your Lord; for He is All-Forgiving [to those who repent.]"

"And He will loose the sky upon you with profuse rain."

"And will give you increase in wealth and sons, and bestow on you gardens and bestow on you rivers [to water your gardens.]"

"What ails you that you hope not for [the reward of] God [and humble yourselves – in your worship – before] His majesty",

"Seeing that He has created you by stages [of development: fetuses, infants, boys, adolescents then men]?"

"Have you not regarded how God created seven [ethereal] heavens, one above another",

"And made the moon [as] a light therein, and made the sun [as] a lamp?"

"And God has formed you from the earth as a planting."

"Then He will return you into it [by death], and will take you out of it [while you are souls, on Doomsday.]"

"And God has made easy for you the earth [for dwelling and cultivation.]"

"That you may go about therein, in spacious roads."

Noah said: "My Lord, they have rebelled against me, and followed [their chiefs] whose wealth and children increase them only in loss."

"And have devised [against the believers] a mighty device [like that of mighty animals against weak animals.]"

"And have said [to each other]: 'Do not forsake [the worshipping of] your gods, and do not forsake [the idols:] Wadd, Suwa, Yaghuoth, Yauoq and Nasr."

"And they have misguided many [of people]; so [my Lord!] increase [Thou] the wrong-doers only in misguidance."

Because of their sins, they were drowned [in the flood], then [their souls] were admitted into a fire.

And Noah said: "My Lord, leave not upon the earth of the unbelievers even one dwelling in any house."

"Surely, if You leave them, they will misguide Your [believing] servants, and will beget none but those [like them] wicked ungrateful [men.]"

"My Lord, forgive to me and to my parents and to whosoever enters my house [running away from the unbelievers], and to the believers: men and women alike; and increase the wrong-doers only in destruction.)

ÕÝÍÉ ÌÏíÏÉ 1
Man after Death
The Disagreement of the
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Old 07-17-2009, 05:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eanassir View Post


And again I say he is al-Hilly which in Arabic means "the Hilly"; he lived in Hilla about 100 km south of Baghdad; Hilla is near the ruins of the famous Babylon city. The interpreter died at 1991.

He explained the mysterious ayat of the Quran (the meaning of such mysterious ayat is only known by God, and none of people including the clerics know their explanation and implication), and he was acquainted about the Torah and the Gospel.
Okay, I misspelled it again. It was just cut-and-paste from the first misspelling. Even so, it would have originally been written with Arabic letters not English letters. Anyway, it's not a vital matter of importance considering that you clearly understood exactly who I was talking about.

I already agreed that a scientific discussion about Venus is something that could easily require it's own thread, but that's not the point. You, the interpreter and presumably Mohammed-Ali Hassan al-Hilly have made major errors regarding Venus and Mars with the idea that such concepts relate to the Earth in order to link it all as to why you think Noah lived to be 950 years.

I don't know how I can express that point any more clear than that when you continue to dodge it and leap to unrelated things. If your understanding about Venus and Mars are not correct, then your understanding about the Earth is equally incorrect.

Permit me to refresh your memory of what was claimed about Venus:
"Venus, in the past, was inhabited; for there were human beings, animals, plant, trees and other things; but the life on Venus ended because of its standstill from axial rotation, and all its inhabitants died, its rivers dried and its trees burnt...

The traveler to Venus, then, will find towns, houses, clubs and shops, but will not see anyone dwelling therein; he will see furniture and property, but will not see any owner of them; he will see rivers but without water; and trees but they have been burnt by the Sun heat".

This claim makes the following assumptions:
1 - There human beings once lived on Venus.
2 - If you went to Venus you'd find abandoned towns, houses, clubs and shops.
3 - You'd see furniture and property belonging to the Venusians.
4 - You'd see burnt out trees on Venus.

I will say this: Venus has not always been the way it is now. It is now covered by a thick cloud layer of sulfur dioxide. The atmosphere is about 95% carbon dioxide. There might have been oceans on the planet in the past. Although I don't think there was enough time for life to thrive on Venus, there might have been a chance for chemical elements to be present that could begin the process toward life on the planet, maybe even proto single cells, but certainly not any complex forms of life.

That said, it's also important to understand that any water oceans or life on Venus would have vanished billions of years ago.

How Do We Know?
So could there be any abandoned towns on Venus? The answer is no. How can we be sure if we can't see through the thick layer of clouds? The answer to that is that we HAVE looked through the clouds to see the surface, thanks to the Soviet Venera landing modules (which have taken photos from the surface), as well as numerous U.S. and European space probes.

One important U.S. probe, called Magellan, was launched in 1989 and finished its mission in 1994 with a planned crash landing on the surface. One of Magellan's missions was to map the surface of Venus. It succeeded in mapping over 98% of the surface. Magellan used radar so sensitive that it could detect objects on the surface 300 feet across. Admittedly, most houses we think of here on Earth would be too small to directly detect. But something the size of an entire town, or even a small village, would have easily been seen.

Venus Does NOT Rotate On Its Axis?
You stated this:
"Another point is that Venus has recently stopped its axial rotation, so in comparison to Mercury which stopped spinning long time ago before Venus: so Mercury has more wild catastrophic changes to the extent that Mercury has lost its atmosphere, while Venus still has its thick smock in its atmosphere; therefore the changes that occurred on Venus are more recent and relatively milder than Mercury which passed such phase similar to the present Venus phase.

So; yes, I do believe this almost is present on Venus now."

This is completely wrong. Venus is still rotating on its axis, although it is extremely slow. A day on Venus is equal to 116.75 Earth days. Furthermore, its rotation is in the opposite direction of Earth's.

Conclusion About Planet Venus
No sign of any towns or villages have ever been spotted on Venus. Even if there had been millions or billions of years ago, everything would have eroded and vanished without a trace. That only leaves you with believing nothing more than pure speculation, not scientific facts.

Sizes of Planets
You wrote the following:
"So according to this rule, we realize that the arrangements of the planets away from the Sun are like this:

Mercury is the smallest and nearest to Sun.
Venus is larger than Mercury and smaller than Earth.
Earth is larger than Venus and smaller than Mars.
Mars is larger than Earth and smaller than Jupiter, and as such the rest of the planets."

This is loaded with serious errors and completely false. First of all, by this line of "reasoning" that should make Mercury smaller than Pluto. However, that's not so. Mercury is twice as large as Pluto.
Mercury and Pluto

As I already stated, the diameter of Mars is only 6800km, about half the size of the Earth. Mars is not larger than the Earth. Then we have the gas giants to consider. Jupiter is the largest in size. Next out is Saturn, which is definitely a gigantic planet, but is smaller than Jupiter. Then comes Uranus and Neptune, which again are gigantic, but are much smaller than Saturn. And of course, there's Pluto which is not a gas giant, but is a very tiny frozen planet-like body which is probably from the more distant Kuiper Belt region. Beyond that lies the Oort Cloud (thought to be where most comets originate) which surrounds the entire solar system like a sphere.

You also stated:
"I don't know about their calculations, but there must be some practical way of their landing, which they have learnt form their many failures in the past, so they corrected all that practically to serve their correct landing on Mars."

Exactly. Any errors in landing haven't been related to where the landing was to take place, but was related equipment failure, glitches in the onboard computer software controlling the deployment of the landing, or mid-course correction errors. None of it had anything to do with Mars being larger as you claim.


Conclusion About the Size of the Planets
The idea that the size of the planets are based on their distance from the Sun is completely false. Here's a good representation of the size of the planets. (Ignore the title, the page simply shows a photo of the size scale of the planets).
Asynx Planetarium Software free download (http://www.asynx-planetarium.com/html/Pict_SolarSystemScale.php - broken link)

Since your concept about the planets fail, so too does the ideal that 5000 years ago a day on Earth could've been only 6 hours long fail against factual science.
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Old 07-17-2009, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Arizona High Desert
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Well, if so, his DNA chain must have been realllly long ! hahahahaha
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Old 07-17-2009, 10:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Peggy Anne View Post
Well, if so, his DNA chain must have been realllly long ! hahahahaha
So according to your long laughter, is the length of the DNA chain related to the long life of anyman in anyway?
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Old 07-18-2009, 06:32 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
You, the interpreter and presumably Mohammed-Ali Hassan al-Hilly have made major errors regarding Venus and Mars with the idea that such concepts relate to the Earth in order to link it all as to why you think Noah lived to be 950 years.
The interpreter is only Mohammed-Ali Hassan al-Hilly and not anyone else; and we did not link it to Noah long life;

but it was you who came and insisted to discuss the subject of Venus and Mars in order to falsify the words of the interpreter:

that if the interpreter is wrong concerning Venus and Mars then he is wrong about everything else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
I will say this: Venus has not always been the way it is now. It is now covered by a thick cloud layer of sulfur dioxide. The atmosphere is about 95% carbon dioxide. There might have been oceans on the planet in the past. Although I don't think there was enough time for life to thrive on Venus, there might have been a chance for chemical elements to be present that could begin the process toward life on the planet, maybe even proto single cells, but certainly not any complex forms of life.
That said, it's also important to understand that any water oceans or life on Venus would have vanished billions of years ago.

Now Venus is covered by the thick smock that fills its atmosphere; this smock is a mixture of many toxic and suffocating gases like the sulfur dioxide, carbon dioxide and methane …etc.

So at the present this planet is mysterious to them, it is covered by the thick smock in its atmosphere, which will certainly impede seeing its surface clearly, in spite of all the scientific equipments.

Moreover, this cannot be stated for certain, that life and oceans were there since billions of years ago; no one can assert this: it is mysterious planet to them, and their words about it are only speculations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
How Do We Know?
So could there be any abandoned towns on Venus? The answer is no. How can we be sure if we can't see through the thick layer of clouds? The answer to that is that we HAVE looked through the clouds to see the surface, thanks to the Soviet Venera landing modules (which have taken photos from the surface), as well as numerous U.S. and European space probes.

One important U.S. probe, called Magellan, was launched in 1989 and finished its mission in 1994 with a planned crash landing on the surface. One of Magellan's missions was to map the surface of Venus. It succeeded in mapping over 98% of the surface. Magellan used radar so sensitive that it could detect objects on the surface 300 feet across. Admittedly, most houses we think of here on Earth would be too small to directly detect. But something the size of an entire town, or even a small village, would have easily been seen.
It is still a planet wrapped with mystery, and much of it is still unknown to them, although the precious knowledge that scientists obtained proves that if there is any life and oceans on Venus, it has been exterminated by its difficult situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
Venus is still rotating on its axis, although it is extremely slow. A day on Venus is equal to 116.75 Earth days. Furthermore, its rotation is in the opposite direction of Earth's.

See in this link:
Venus

"Venus' rotation is somewhat unusual in that it is both very slow (243 Earth days per Venus day, slightly longer than Venus' year) and retrograde.


In addition, the periods of Venus' rotation and of its orbit are synchronized such that it always presents the same face toward Earth when the two planets are at their closest approach. Whether this is a resonance effect or merely a coincidence is not known.


Venus is sometimes regarded as Earth's sister planet. In some ways they are very similar: Venus is only slightly smaller than Earth (95% of Earth's diameter, 80% of Earth's mass). "


So here, scientists admit that the day of Venus is very long (? Not spinning in fact):
The day of Venus = 243 Earth days,
The day of Venus is slightly longer than Venus' year,
And its rotation is retrograde (like that of the Moon in relation to the Earth),
Moreover, Venus always presents the same face toward Earth when the two planets are at their closest approach.

These findings go along with the idea that Venus in fact does not spin around itself, but only circle around the Sun with one face always in front of the Sun, and the other one does not confront the Sun. [like the Moon in relation to the Earth, where we do not see the other unseen half of Moon.]

Moreover, it is stated that the mass of Venus is about 80% the mass of the Earth. In fact the mass is the important factor, but because the late interpreter did not learn physics, he used the word "size".


Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
Sizes of Planets
You wrote the following:
"So according to this rule, we realize that the arrangements of the planets away from the Sun are like this:

Mercury is the smallest and nearest to Sun.
Venus is larger than Mercury and smaller than Earth.
Earth is larger than Venus and smaller than Mars.
Mars is larger than Earth and smaller than Jupiter, and as such the rest of the planets."

This is loaded with serious errors and completely false. First of all, by this line of "reasoning" that should make Mercury smaller than Pluto. However, that's not so. Mercury is twice as large as Pluto.

Pluto is not a planet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
The idea that the size of the planets are based on their distance from the Sun is completely false.
More correct: the distance of the planet from the Sun is based on the size of the planet; i.e. the size of the planet will determine its distance from the Sun, and not the opposite.

Moreover, do you say there is no system and order for the positions and distances of the planets from the Sun?

then is there any rule that the planet follows to take its position and distance from the Sun, or is that haphazardly without following any rule?

This is the important question that you have to answer, because the interpreter (who did not graduate at any school) answered it, while you and astronomers, do you know the answer?


Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
Since your concept about the planets fail, so too does the ideal that 5000 years ago a day on Earth could've been only 6 hours long fail against factual science.
Not at all, the concept is true, and you are evading many facts about Venus and many other findings; and your deduction is not correct.

ÕÝÍÉ ÌÏíÏÉ 1
Then from the list of Contents, click on:
The journey to Venus is dangerous

Last edited by eanassir; 07-18-2009 at 06:43 AM..
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Old 07-18-2009, 02:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eanassir View Post
The interpreter is only Mohammed-Ali Hassan al-Hilly and not anyone else; and we did not link it to Noah long life;

but it was you who came and insisted to discuss the subject of Venus and Mars in order to falsify the words of the interpreter:

Thank you for clarifying that the interpreter was Mohammed-Ali Hassan al-Hilly. I can understand what you mean. It is his interpretation of science. I also just noticed that the translator of his writing is none other than you. I presume the website you keep providing links to as your primary source of reference is yours also. Nothing wrong with that but it does make it look like you're only promoting your own website. I may be wrong, but the only references you've provided are your translation of Mohammed-Ail Hassan al-Hilly, the Koran, and the Bible. Have you included any references of contemporary scientific experts that would reliably validate your claims?

Sorry, but YOU are the one who kept posting links to your own website to support your claims that the Earth's rotation slowed from a 6-hour day to the present 24-hour day in a matter of a mere 5000 years. The whole point you've stated that is because it all "proves" that Noah lived to be 950 years old. Isn't that what the thread is about?

You stated:
Quote:
...and we did not link it to Noah long life...
Nice try, but who are you fooling? You can't shift things quite as easy as that. Maybe Mohammed-Ali Hassan al-Hilly didn't make the link to Noah's long life, but you did. And you specifically used his views in order to bolster support as "proof" for your own view about Noah's long life.



To support your claims about Noah, it was you who made other claims about the Earth. And THAT starts getting into the area of science. I looked at your translation of Mohammed-Ali Hassan al-Hilly by the links you provided. Your website page included links about both Venus and Mars. Why would Mohammed-Ali Hassan al-Hilly say anything about those planets as well as other planets? The reason is simple: it's because they relate to the Earth. They and the Earth are all planets in our solar system.

That said, it was worth seeing what he had to say about Venus and Mars. I didn't fabricate or falsify his claims. So don't go trying to shift it over to blame me. I simply quoted exactly what you translated that he said. His claims about those planets are nothing more than wild speculation, no different than the imaginative writings of science-fiction writers. His claims are not based on any known scientific observations or study. Now then, it may be that when he originally wrote those things, people at that time had all kinds of speculations. But those speculations were because they had no way to know if they were true or not. It's not hard to understand that people could easily imagine that planets like Venus or Mars might indeed be filled with thriving civilizations, buildings, plants, animals, and all kinds of things. But over the course of time with more precise and accurate observation and study of those planets, it's pretty clear that many ideas of the past were not correct at all.

Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to think those planets may have been home to civilizations, long dead or even still alive today. But the hard evidence clearly points to those planets as lifeless. It's possible Mars may still contain life, but that life would probably be nothing greater than microbes (bacteria) living underground, well protected from the hostile environment above. Again, that's not talking about complex organisms like people and civilizations. But yet, Mohammed-Ali Hassan al-Hilly does indeed claim Venus and Mars had people, towns, buildings, plants, furniture, etc. Those claims are not something I just pulled out of thin air. They are direct quotes from your own translated website.

Yes, I'm saying he was not correct about the planets. And if he was that wrong about those planets, then he's likely to be very wrong about the Earth as well. I do understand that at his time, Venus might well have been considered as having stopped its axial rotation. You, yourself, claimed its axial rotation has STOPPED. However, we now know that it is indeed still rotating on it's own axis, even though it is very slow, which I stated. In other words, it hasn't stopped spinning. It has nothing do with it's orbit around the Sun.

You're also twisting things I've said. For example, I did not say Pluto is a planet. I said it was a cold icy planet-like body that is probably part of the Kuiper Belt. The classification of what defines a planet is still under debate. Regardless, it is still a part of the solar system. It beyond the gas giants. According to your scenario that things close to the sun are smaller, things farther from the sun are larger. Since Pluto is part of the solar system then (according to your line of reasoning) it should be much larger than any of the gas giants. It clearly is not.

Nor is Mars larger than the Earth. You previously stated, "I don't know about their calculations..." It's because YOU don't know. It also explains why you rely solely on speculation for everything else, including the "6-hour day 5000 years ago" as the reason why Noah lived to be 950 years old but claim it is based on known science.

Just to make myself clear, I'm not in any way suggesting that Mohammed-Ali Hassan al-Hilly was stupid. He wasn't. He was relying on the information and knowledge that was available at that time. However, since then, the information and knowledge is much more accurate than it was back then. We can now say that many of his speculations were not correct.

That brings us to your speculations. You are still relying on old inaccurate concepts that science proves your point about Noah's age. You are clearly wrong. As you said, you don't know. It's one thing to say you have a hypothesis about Noah's age. But it's another matter to claim it as scientific fact.


Quote:
Moreover, do you say there is no system and order for the positions and distances of the planets from the Sun?

then is there any rule that the planet follows to take its position and distance from the Sun, or is that haphazardly without following any rule?
Again you err. The solar system is not necessarily a hodge-podge arrangement. There is no single rule, if that's what you mean. There does seem to be some valid reasons why the rocky planets are closer to the Sun and the gas giants are farther out. But what makes you think the rocky planets and gas giant planets are all there is to the solar system. The solar system is much larger than you imagine it to be. It also includes the Kuiper Belt and the Oort Cloud.

Yes, the specific formation of the solar system involved a number of haphazard events which ultimately resulted in the particular arrangement of the 8 (or 9) primary planets in the solar system today. How do you think these planets were formed in the first place? Try migration of the gas giants though the disc of dust and gas around the Sun over the course of billions of years. It would have been very chaotic. There are remnants of the disc still present today, in the form of the inner Asteroid Belt (located between Mars and Jupiter), and probably the outer Kuiper Belt (located beyond the gas giants). And just for your benefit, it in no way takes God out of the picture because God is certainly capable of using what we think of as chaos in order to achieve other things.

Yes, it's just a theory, but it's a very plausible theory. Could the theory change in the future? Of course it could as newer more accurate and precise information is discovered and observed.



You stated:
Quote:
Not at all, the concept is true, and you are evading many facts about Venus and many other findings; and your deduction is not correct.
That's absolute nonsense! I have not evaded anything about Venus or many other findings. As you previously stated, to deal with the subject of Venus, Mars or whatever, in detail, it would take more space than is practical on a forum thread. I have no intention to do a full discourse about the current knowledge of the planets. To do so would amount to reinventing the wheel. I've given you some brief simple facts to be helpful, because there's no need to confuse you with complexity. After all, you said... you don't know. If you want more information, then there's plenty to be easily found using the Internet.

You've made some extraordinary claims. The burden of proof is for you to shows your claims are true. Quotes from the Koran doesn't help because as you, yourself, stated:
Quote:
...the mysterious ayat of the Quran (the meaning of such mysterious ayat is only known by God, and none of people including the clerics know their explanation and implication)...
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Old 07-18-2009, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Western Cary, NC
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He did not live to 950 years old, it just felt like 950 years with all the religious bull he was suppose to be living.
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Old 07-18-2009, 08:20 PM
 
1,553 posts, read 1,839,146 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cncracer View Post
He did not live to 950 years old, it just felt like 950 years with all the religious bull he was suppose to be living.

Prophet Noah - salam be to him - lived actual 950 years, it is not just felt like 950 years.

This is clearly stated by the aya in the Quran 29: 14
وَلَقَدْ أَرْسَلْنَا نُوحًا إِلَى قَوْمِهِ فَلَبِثَ فِيهِمْ أَلْفَ سَنَةٍ إِلَّا خَمْسِينَ عَامًا فَأَخَذَهُمُ الطُّوفَانُ وَهُمْ ظَالِمُونَ

The explanation:
(We did send Noah to his people, and he tarried among them a thousand years, all but fifty; and the flood overtook them while they were wrong-doers.)

The Disagreement of the
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Old 07-18-2009, 08:32 PM
 
1,628 posts, read 4,046,775 times
Reputation: 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by eanassir View Post
Prophet Noah - salam be to him - lived actual 950 years, it is not just felt like 950 years.

This is clearly stated by the aya in the Quran 29: 14
وَلَقَدْ أَرْسَلْنَا نُوحًا إِلَى قَوْمِهِ فَلَبِثَ فِيهِمْ أَلْفَ سَنَةٍ إِلَّا خَمْسِينَ عَامًا فَأَخَذَهُمُ الطُّوفَانُ وَهُمْ ظَالِمُونَ

The explanation:
(We did send Noah to his people, and he tarried among them a thousand years, all but fifty; and the flood overtook them while they were wrong-doers.)

The Disagreement of the
Laughable, simply laughable. To 'prove' that what a book said by using that book is inane.
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