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A fair god who sends hurricans to smite the sinners of New Orleans, and tsunami to drown the infidel heathens along the pacific rim, or damn non-believers to an everlasting hell.
Firstly, giving because someone tells you to is not charity, it is duty. True charity is giving because there is merely a need, and then fading anonymously into the shadows.
Secondly, in light of the plethora of religiously based laws in the US alone, your statements of "not forcing on others" is laughable. Prohibition, anti-sodomy laws, dry municipalities and limitations of booze sales only on sunday, the recently overturned ban on adult toys in Texas, our current Motto and Pledge, each and every ban on gay couples being married, et cetera ad nauseum.
what you mean no drinking and no sodomy on sunday, what is wrong with these madmen?
will they stop at nothing.
as to new orleans, well ok ok, drowning was a lil harsh but trust me
pre katrina was just not a mr rogers kind of place.
signed
a former new orleans resident
Christians should want their rewards in Heaven and not on Earth,their good deeds not seen by other and boasting of them. It is selfish when you see others in need and do nothing but give lip service . It might impress others but it doesn't impress the one who needs the help,
Do nothing? Really? Christian charity abounds worldwide. I gave an example earlier in this thread. I urge you to check out a group called Samaritans Purse. It's run by Franklin Graham, Billy Graham's son. This group is johnny-on-the-spot whenever natural disasters hit. Your assertion is absurd.
YECers purposely misrepresenting science to further their scewed version of Christianity is purely pernicious delusions. Science shows there was no creation, no Adam and Eve, no flood, no nuked cities, the earth is 4.6 billion years old and not 6,000, et cetera ad nauseum. While science does indeed not effect "metaphysical" concerns, it certainly does disprove the bible enough to cancel the possibilities of both myth and miracles contained within, and very possibly your diety as well. And if not your diety, certainly the idea that he is the "One and Only Creator God of the Universe, Earth, and Man."
If your statement was just directed at YEC okay. However no science doesn't "disprove the Bible" because the Bible isn't a science book.
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Originally Posted by AM
Much of the planet's population thought the world was flat too.
This belief came from ignorance. Experiences of God or the supernatural for centuries, across numerous cultures, is a different thing.
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Originally Posted by AM
My comments concerning science are also accurate, and I invite to to prove them wrong.
What ones do you wish me to prove wrong? That science disproves the Bible? This is like saying math disproves the Ramayana. It's a meaningless statement I can't really respond to.
Sure many things the Bible says about space or biology are false. If you see religion simply as some kind of proto-science than your point is valid. It just isn't really valid in any other sense.
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Originally Posted by AM
Was the Catholism of my youth "traumatic"? ONly in the sence of my confusion when I began figuring out the inconsistancies and outright lies of the religion.
Well then I don't know why you display such anger and bitterness here. Maybe it's just a tactic. If so I have to tell you I think it's not very effective. And unless you're over 50 why are you smoking? And if you're over 50 why are you so immature?
Do nothing? Really? Christian charity abounds worldwide. I gave an example earlier in this thread. I urge you to check out a group called Samaritans Purse. It's run by Franklin Graham, Billy Graham's son. This group is johnny-on-the-spot whenever natural disasters hit. Your assertion is absurd.
You misunderstood,I know that Christian's have great charities and do good deeds,Iam relating to non-believers and ones who haven't come to the Lord as to what a Christian is and isnt,I am a Christian myself.
You misunderstood,I know that Christian's have great charities and do good deeds,Iam relating to non-believers and ones who haven't come to the Lord as to what a Christian is and isnt,I am a Christian myself.
what you mean no drinking and no sodomy on sunday, what is wrong with these madmen?
will they stop at nothing.
as to new orleans, well ok ok, drowning was a lil harsh but trust me
pre katrina was just not a mr rogers kind of place.
signed
a former new orleans resident
I'll apologize if you thought I was insulting to New Orleans, not my intent in the least.
Merely mirroring comments made by TV Evangelists and your own mayor.
If your statement was just directed at YEC okay. However no science doesn't "disprove the Bible" because the Bible isn't a science book.
As I have stated numerous times, I do not generalize and attempt to shove ALL Christians into the same closet. And science does indeed disprove scripture, specifically the myths contained within.
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Originally Posted by Thomas R.
This belief came from ignorance. Experiences of God or the supernatural for centuries, across numerous cultures, is a different thing.
Only those areas and cultures subjected to missionaries (or invasion) have ever shown any inclination towards Jehovah and/or Christ. Without those concerns, no area worshipped your god prior to ivnasion by colonial forces and/or missionaries.
Also, you appear to forget that I am also a pantheist as well. We believe ALL deties exist, and ALL created by the concentrated will of men over a period of time. That goes for your god as well. We do not believe in creator deities, as this would be against the Laws of Nature.
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Originally Posted by Thomas R.
What ones do you wish me to prove wrong? That science disproves the Bible? This is like saying math disproves the Ramayana. It's a meaningless statement I can't really respond to.
Let me clarify. Science proves the Biblical Flood did not occur. Science also disproves the idea that we all originated from one couple and instead evolved from other humaniod life forms. Those are just two of the more glaring examples.
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Originally Posted by Thomas R.
Sure many things the Bible says about space or biology are false. If you see religion simply as some kind of proto-science than your point is valid. It just isn't really valid in any other sense.
Sir, I am not argueing against YOU, I am argueing against YECers who Do see their bible as some form of proto-science, infalalble, and each and every word true, and especially those who consider the scriptures infallable and accurate, and use that to further their theocratic agenda.
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Originally Posted by Thomas R.
Well then I don't know why you display such anger and bitterness here. Maybe it's just a tactic. If so I have to tell you I think it's not very effective. And unless you're over 50 why are you smoking? And if you're over 50 why are you so immature?
First explain why smoking is "immature". Otherwise it's merely a strawman and a distraction.
Also, you do not see "anger and bitterness", you see frustration with my fellow US Citizens who cannot understand that their religion is protected by keeping it out of g'ment and our laws, that "freedom of religion" doesn't indicate one can force their religious doctrine on everyone else through our laws, that these principles were embedded into our nation by our Founders, and that those principles have been eroded and comprimised in the centuries of our existance.
Do nothing? Really? Christian charity abounds worldwide. I gave an example earlier in this thread. I urge you to check out a group called Samaritans Purse. It's run by Franklin Graham, Billy Graham's son. This group is johnny-on-the-spot whenever natural disasters hit. Your assertion is absurd.
As soon as you said "Franklin Graham" I had to check it out.
Sure enough, I was right...
Throughout the 2000s, critics have questioned the altruism of Operation Christmas Child, noting that Evangelical Christian literature has been distributed with the shoe boxes, and have alleged that the project's underlying aim is the proselytization of non-Christians .[18][19]. Rev. Franklin Graham, the head of Samaritan's Purse, was also criticized for calling Islam "a wicked religion,"[20] leading to opposition campaigns by Islamic leaders.[21] In the UK criticism has come from prominent Christian clergy, such as Rev Giles Fraser, as well as from Muslim [22] and atheist groups .[23]
The accounts for Samaritan's Purse UK for 2006 show a turn over in excess of £22 million..[24] Of this total, £1.3 million were disbursed on relief and aid projects with the balance spent on promotion and operations associated with the evangelical project Operation Christmas Child.
Samaritan's Purse responded to many of these concerns by highlighting their evangelical focus and their long history of non-denominational cooperation..[25] Following censure from the UK Charity Commission, Samaritan's Purse UK also released a leaflet claiming their actual intent and methods.[26]
Neo conservatives such as Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Perle may have designed the policies that have led to an invasion of Iraq, but groups like Franklin Graham's Samaritan's Purse and the Southern Baptist Convention take advantage of those policies to send thousands of missionaries to that country. Their work has proven effective -- helping to rebuild hospitals, offering food aid and hygiene kits -- and they have been commended for their sensitivity to the local populations. Missionaries do much good work in places of great need.
Only those areas and cultures subjected to missionaries (or invasion) have ever shown any inclination towards Jehovah and/or Christ. Without those concerns, no area worshipped your god prior to ivnasion by colonial forces and/or missionaries.
I'm not meaning that they worship the God of Christianity. I'm simply meaning that a belief in the supernatural, creation, a high God, and the afterlife are very common. Almost universal.
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Originally Posted by AM
Also, you appear to forget that I am also a pantheist as well. We believe ALL deties exist, and ALL created by the concentrated will of men over a period of time. That goes for your god as well. We do not believe in creator deities, as this would be against the Laws of Nature.
I know you've said you're a pantheist, but I don't know what you mean by that. As I always understand pantheism it means that all-gods are part of the One-God and the One-God is the same as the Universe. It's not about God/gods being creating by the will of men.
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Originally Posted by AM
Let me clarify. Science proves the Biblical Flood did not occur. Science also disproves the idea that we all originated from one couple and instead evolved from other humaniod life forms. Those are just two of the more glaring examples.
I'm not a Bible literalist. However humans being descended from humanoids does not prove/disprove we're all descended from one couple. We could be descended from Mitochondrial Eve and her guy. Okay maybe not, but still descending from humanoids doesn't say much on the matter. There's reason to think there have been population bottlenecks.
In any event these things are possibly teaching tools or exaggerations of real events for a purpose.
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Originally Posted by AM
Sir, I am not argueing against YOU, I am argueing against YECers who Do see their bible as some form of proto-science, infalalble, and each and every word true, and especially those who consider the scriptures infallable and accurate, and use that to further their theocratic agenda.
If you are only arguing with YECers than be clearer. The way you argue seems to slight all Christians whether you mean to or not.
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Originally Posted by AM
First explain why smoking is "immature". Otherwise it's merely a strawman and a distraction.
I take it you are over 50 then as I only said "immature" would count if you are that age.
The reason I think you're immature for a man that age is not because you smoke. You're immature because of the way you seem to get on a high-horse lecturing others. Because you seem so intensely suspicious of any Christian charity. There are lots of religions that I think are crud, but that doesn't mean I think all their charities are just scams designed to coerce or cajole people. Even the Scientologists, as much as I dislike them, likely have charities that are sincerely charitable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AM
Also, you do not see "anger and bitterness", you see frustration with my fellow US Citizens who cannot understand that their religion is protected by keeping it out of g'ment and our laws, that "freedom of religion" doesn't indicate one can force their religious doctrine on everyone else through our laws, that these principles were embedded into our nation by our Founders, and that those principles have been eroded and comprimised in the centuries of our existance.
You believe in things about the US that are almost totally erroneous. I've basically called you on this and you just puff and call me a liar.
If you actually knew US history you'd know that several states had established churches when the Founding Fathers were around. Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New Hampshire all had state churches in the 1780s or 1790s. Those three also all have, or will have, same-sex marriage today. That compared to their era religions influence on politics is the same or weaker. No one has to say the Pledge of Allegiance or swear on a Bible. The "God" in things like "In God We Trust" has pretty much always been deemed a civic deism. Lastly the "Declaration of Independence" mentions a "Creator" something you don't believe in.
You've created a US in your mind that never existed. That you whine, pout, or practically scream at me when I won't acknowledge it. The country you want to preserve is France, it fits the secular-state ideals you have, not the US. And you are angry.
Last edited by Thomas R.; 08-02-2009 at 09:51 PM..
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