Some Mystical Ramblings - a god in training.

[justamere10]

Originally Posted by forkpower

Doesn't it take a conscience mind to be able to perceive or contain intelligence? What of things that are alive and have no mind/conscience? What of things that are not even alive? Can we really say that we are connected to this things if they lack the very mechanics to perceive what connects us?

There are certainly different levels of conscious awareness, with fully functioning human beings probably being at or near the top of sentient physical existence on this planet. Animals, trees, etc. probably also have a spirit and are possibly 'connected' with everything else that exists via "Intelligence" as I suggest.

In this thread I am merely proposing a hypothesis to help explore and discuss things most of us find difficult to understand. I'll try to defend/elaborate on what I wrote, but please understand that what I'm writing here is not Mormon doctrine.

I think the New Testament records the Lord saying that the very stones would cry out if the people did not fulfill the prophecy as he rode a donkey into Jerusalem.

Mormon scriptures contain an account of planet earth herself speaking to a prophet, and weeping for the wickedness of man.

So, I don't know how much conscious awareness there might be in an inanimate object like a stone or a rock, but apparently they too are capable of expression. Could that be because they don't house an individual spirit, but vital elements of their composition are permeated with that "Intelligence" that I propose is everywhere?

[justamere10]

Originally Posted by kdbrich

Logically, there has to be an uncreated Creator that has always existed before time began. At some point the creators have to hit an end when you go back far enough.

I propose that the "end" is "Intelligence" which is not created or made, has always existed, and occupies everything. Perhaps formless Intellience as a whole got totally bored with forever and decided to organize/create a few Gods to stir up the primeval soup and get some adrenalin flowing?

[forkpower]

Originally Posted by justamere10

There are certainly different levels of conscious awareness, with fully functioning human beings probably being at or near the top of sentient physical existence on this planet. Animals, trees, etc. probably also have a spirit and are possibly 'connected' with everything else that exists via "Intelligence" as I suggest.

So then things that do not, or cannot, be connected to intelligence do not have a spiritual connection? What is the use of such a hypothesized universal connection if it is not universal?

Originally Posted by justamere10

In this thread I am merely proposing a hypothesis to help explore and discuss things most of us find difficult to understand. I'll try to defend/elaborate on what I wrote, but please understand that what I'm writing here is not Mormon doctrine.

I've been approaching your posts as though you were talking of a universal spiritual connection, not necessarily connected with any religion.

Originally Posted by justamere10

I think the New Testament records the Lord saying that the very stones would cry out if the people did not fulfill the prophecy as he rode a donkey into Jerusalem.

Originally Posted by justamere10

Mormon scriptures contain an account of planet earth herself speaking to a prophet, and weeping for the wickedness of man.

I have a feeling that using scripture here is only going to confuse the point further. Was this passage meant to be taken literal, or metaphorically? According to this scripture are we to assume that stones do infact have the capability of vocal outcry, or is this a metaphor showing how much a slight to the natural world if such prophecies were not followed to the letter? You can see how this is only going to raise more questions.

Originally Posted by justamere10

So, I don't know how much conscious awareness there might be in an inanimate object like a stone or a rock, but apparently they too are capable of expression. Could that be because they don't house an individual spirit, but vital elements of their composition are permeated with that "Intelligence" that I propose is everywhere?

Then what would the purpose be of such an intimate connection with inanimate objects be? Is there some sort of understanding/connection that can only be gained from a rock being spiritually connected to a person? How would such a connection effect one’s life experiences? Can we not understand inanimate objects through a purely natural inspection? Why must we be "connected" to such things?

[kdbrich]

Originally Posted by forkpower

I'll ride your roller coaster of logic for a bit.

I'm honored that you'd willing to patronize me.

This is the second half of your favorite false dichotomy that, "The universe was either created or just happend". Why must there be only these two choices? Just because you, or I, cannot come up with an alternative theory does not mean that there isn't one. It would be foolish indeed to ignore arguements/ideas we have yet to hear. Also this directly violates another logical point you are fond of making. That "something cannot come from nothing". I fail to see how something being uncreated (or alwas exisiting/eternal) is any different from coming from nothing.

Come up with a workable alternative method and we'll talk. Until then we have 2.

This is precisely the problem with the cosmological argument, it dosen't have an end. But assuming that it does end somewhere, what makes you think it is your god that is/was the beginning of it all, and that he realy wasnt 352nd down the line?

The cosmological argument proves that logically there was a beginning. What we call that can be argued about from there.

[forkpower]

kd, you never disappoint.

[justamere10]

Originally Posted by forkpower

1. So then things that do not, or cannot, be connected to intelligence do not have a spiritual connection? What is the use of such a hypothesized universal connection if it is not universal?

2. I've been approaching your posts as though you were talking of a universal spiritual connection, not necessarily connected with any religion.

3. I have a feeling that using scripture here is only going to confuse the point further. Was this passage meant to be taken literal, or metaphorically? According to this scripture are we to assume that stones do infact have the capability of vocal outcry, or is this a metaphor showing how much a slight to the natural world if such prophecies were not followed to the letter? You can see how this is only going to raise more questions.

4. Then what would the purpose be of such an intimate connection with inanimate objects be? Is there some sort of understanding/connection that can only be gained from a rock being spiritually connected to a person? How would such a connection effect one’s life experiences? Can we not understand inanimate objects through a purely natural inspection? Why must we be "connected" to such things?

1. I propose that everything is connected because everything has a portion of "Intelligence" in its composition. When I refer to "spirit" I am referring to nonphysical things that are organized out of Intelligence and not just formless/shapeless Intelligence itself. E.g. the human spirit body created/organized by God the Father in His own image and likeness, and the spirit body of animals created/organized by ??

2. Good, I can't discard what I've learned from Mormon teachings and yes there's a lot of that in what I'm writing, but this particular exercise is mere speculative imagination.

3. Personally I think if the prophesy had not been fulfilled by witnesses to the event shouting praise to the Lord that the stones would indeed literally have spoken such praise. It is my belief that the planet we call Earth has a spirit and is evolving on its own path that will ultimately result in this planet dying, and being resurrected with a celestial glory.

More questions are good...

4. It's not so much that we must be connected, it's that we are connected. I suppose a comparison would be to consider the interrelation of energy and matter which I think scientists consider to be one and the same thing, only in different forms. There is only Intelligence, everything else is just varying (organized) forms of Intelligence.