Wisdom, Ignorance and Blinding to the Light (Buddhist, myths, Holy Spirit)
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Flaws..........yes, human flaws surface when attacked to reveal some true personal characteristics not limited to anyone in particular but to everyone generically.
That is the human part of us that is a given that can only be brought into check by an external force via the conscience when the conscience is fed spiritually.
Our spiritual side needs nourishment just as our physical side does, or else we run the risk of depression by spiritual malnourishment.
Having lost the conscience is having lost the moral compass to relate to one another respectfully.
Christianity, as a whole, collectively, despite some rotten apples, has been a strong influence all over the world as witnessed by its phenomenal growth.
Diversity within its own ranks is an essential key important element in maintaining the integrity of its message, otherwise,Christianity left unchecked would and will become, because of the human flaw element, become a dictatorship.
That is one reason why there can not be a 100% positive thread on Christianity, unless of course, all non christian negative words banned.
The same applies to any other point of view.
The positive and good thing about diversity of views, is its ability to unite despite the diversity by learning to see things through the same prism.
A single ray of light through a prism is divided into different colors, yet it is the same light from whence it comes from.
If we can learn to recognize the source of that one light beam in each one of us, then we can unite despite our different colors.
If love is the identity of that source of light, then it must mean that it is within all of us, and that only within the diversity of the experience can we truly come to grips with its source.
The only obstacle to that source surfacing within us is self.
We are all gifted in one thing or another, intelligence, wealth, health, talents of which are as like the differing colors of the prism, but yet, still, from the same source.
Placing a doctor, a lawyer, a politician, a car salesman, a custodian, a motel house maid and a garbage worker in a sinking boat needing rescue, from sinking in shark infested waters, are rescued not by classification, by because they are all human beings, throw in a dog or two.
Love one for another is that ray of light within all of us manifested only when placed in a sinking boat condition.
Blessings AJ
This wonderful post by AJ struck a chord with my pet peeve with sola scriptura and literalist Christians . . . who denigrate what they mistakenly believe is the forbidden "wisdom and ways of man" and actually praise remaining ignorant of anything not in their literal reading of their man-made idol . . . the Bible. God would not give us the ability to learn true knowledge about reality and then demand that we ignore it and remain ignorant of it in favor of ancient prohibitions meant for ignorant primitives. The light of Christ is WITHIN US . . . but it is blocked by such heinous doctrine.
Christians are told to ignore the inner voice of the Word of God (Jesus/ Holy Spirit) and rationalize away its urgings when they conflict with the literal letter of the ancient written word in the man-made Idol (The Bible). This is only necessary when the inner urgings were for negative human desires and emotions . . . lust, envy, greed, anger, wrath, vengeance, etc.etc. But when the inner urgings are the result of love and compassion and concern for others, etc. . . . they are NOT to be ignored. If it feels unloving, mean, cruel, vengeful or vicious etc., it IS . . . and it is the Holy Spirit of Jesus that is telling you so. Do not let ANYONE tell you it serves a higher unknown purpose of God . . . God is LOVE . . . anything that feels unloving to your inner Jesus is NOT of God (read Satan = un-loving).
ANYTHING that glorifies ignorance (repudiates genuine knowledge) is NOT of God. The ancients had very little real knowledge and what "knowledge" they had was used to justify their carnal desires or need for power and control (think Pharisees, cults, etc.). It is that ancient ignorance that was referred to as the "wisdom and ways of man" back then. It in no way applies to modern scientific knowledge, period. Those who retain the ancient ignorance and promote a willful ignorance of modern knowledge AS IF they are doing God's work actually have another master . . one who would have us blinded to the inner light of Jesus and the Holy Spirit. There is no time when you are feeling negative human emotions that you are in touch with God or are doing God's will. God has no negative human emotions. When this inner light is blocked by the "precepts and doctrines of men" to justify any of the negative emotions . . . there is no "prism" effect (AJ's analogy) because there is no light at all.
Look, another one by a another "ignorant" ancient culture.
These symbols are an antidote to so many words ... bypasses convoluted thinking / abstract mental constructs / intellectual interpretations of essential truth/reality, etc., etc..
"There is no time when you are feeling negative human emotions that you are in touch with God or are doing God's will."
It is not the quality (negative or positive) of the emotion that determines whether or not "you are in touch with god".
The important thing is the degree to which you can fully embrace any given situation and be present and remain centered, balanced and conscious and dispassionate in the midst of intense emotions.
A relatively enlightened person can "calmly abide" and remain open and objective when in the presence of negativity (and not identify with it!) whether the "source" of that negativity is "within" or "without".
To separate away from those difficult feelings and emotions and to perceive them as ungodly or unholy is very problematic.
Mystic, in my sad, empiricist's way, yes, I do shun mystical interpretations. I prefer to see the world as nicely structured, and I insist that even if there were some all-powerful "godly" presence, it/he/she/they would still be simply using some sort of logical process that, for the time being, they can assert but we cannot. Yet. You know; anti-gravity, time-space warps; psycho-kinetics, etc. etc. All the things we have imagined, and that would be required to revive the dead, re-position planets, poof into creation all 60 - 100+M species one afternoon, etc.
You actively shun the literalist interpretions of the bible, saying, correctly, that those writings were hampered by the strictures and ignorance of the day, prompted by the authors' ignorance-driven fears of explanable natural phenomena. You criticze those who persist in believing in such irrational stuff to this day in the face of modern knowledge. I agree on that part, of course.
Here's my problem with your overall interpretation: you're selectively rejecting the nonsense components of the Christian religion, stripping away all that fear-based or illogical stuff, and then stating that the remaining part, the quiet meditative, self-oriented love and honesty mediated part, is still some sort of redefined purist Christianity.
Despite the ignorant crowd's bleatings, you seem to be asserting there is still a part of Christianity that remains quite viable, despite the fact that you've stripped away, essentially, almost all of it's underpinnings. You also attack those of us who go for the obvious weaknesses of those fairy-tale components. Why, I wonder? They post, we respond. Even you respond!
Well, that's because to most of us, the total Christian package is what's precisely being defended here by most Christian posters, who say you can't sustain a complex belief and support for Christianity without also defending all the indefensible parts. You, on the other hand, seem to be cherry-picking the few parts you personally approve of, and laughingly dumping the rest as irrational.
Problem is: seems to me you have created another religion. Perhaps a more Buddhist or Shinto outlook? Why cling to the Christian moniker, the package and title, when you have modified it so significantly? That's like calling a stripped-down NASCAR Chevrolet the same car as the Malibu in your driveway. They only look the same, if you squint, from about 200 yards away.
Otherwise, they are quite different animals, Mystic! As is your Christianity, with which I probably, essentially, have no dispute. It's your own version of a spiritual understanding.
Mystic, in my sad, empiricist's way, yes, I do shun mystical interpretations. I prefer to see the world as nicely structured, and I insist that even if there were some all-powerful "godly" presence, it/he/she/they would still be simply using some sort of logical process that, for the time being, they can assert but we cannot. Yet. You know; anti-gravity, time-space warps; psycho-kinetics, etc. etc. All the things we have imagined, and that would be required to revive the dead, re-position planets, poof into creation all 60 - 100+M species one afternoon, etc.
You shun what you do not yet understand empirically because you have a convenient dismissive (but erroneous) label for it . . . "supernatural." There is no such thing . . . only yet to be discovered aspects of natural phenomena. THIS is your mistake. The universe is comprised (95+% . . . that's a huge number) of dark energy and dark matter that is NOT directly measurable by our current science and technology. How can you call ONLY those things we can empirically establish within the 4+% "natural" and the rest (majority) "supernatural?" Do you not see the unjustifiable arrogance of that position?
Our very own consciousness is of the same ilk (a NOT directly measurable form of "composite" energy NOT individual brain waves or chemical reactions) and we ACT as a "composite" (our "Self") . . . NOT as individual brain activity. THAT makes the "composite" . . . which neuroscientists would call the "illusion of the Self" . . . real NOT an illusion. Illusions cannot INTERACT with the universe. ONLY REAL forms of energy interact . . . not illusions.
Why would it be so hard to entertain the idea that our consciousness is of the same "stuff" as that which comprises the bulk of our entire universe? Since energy cannot be created or destroyed only changed in form . . . (and we have no idea what can do that to dark matter or dark energy" . . . why is it irrational to entertain the idea that our composite consciousness form of energy remains eternally in that form (whatever it is)?
Quote:
Why cling to the Christian moniker, the package and title, when you have modified it so significantly? That's like calling a stripped-down NASCAR Chevrolet the same car as the Malibu in your driveway. They only look the same, if you squint, from about 200 yards away.
Otherwise, they are quite different animals, Mystic! As is your Christianity, with which I probably, essentially, have no dispute. It's your own version of a spiritual understanding.
Just don't call it Christianity™.
I understand your aversion to the Christian label because of the huge misunderstanding of the operative concepts cloaked in the magic and superstition produced by ancient ignorance and perpetuated by religious dogmatism. But the underlying reality is NOT determined by what people have misconstrued about it. Human consciousness exists eternally once produced (absent some emprically verifiable process for transforming dark energy or dark matter).That means that every human consciousness since the first still exists somewhere (in some form . . . if transformable).
The Spiritual "template" in the myths and legends preceding and including the Jesus legend describe the process that is necessary for human consciousness to fulfill its evolutionary purpose within the universe (along with untold other species we know zilch about). A human consciousness(Spirit) has to overcome its animal nature to achieve a perfect resonance with the universal field (God consciousness) which establishes and maintains the universe itself. The only example of a complete conquering and submission of ALL animal drives (including pain avoidance and survival) among the contenders . . . is Jesus Christ. QED
All the transformations of energy have the purpose of elevating the lower forms of life energy to consciousness . . . but not just ANY consciousness . . . a specific kind of consciousness. The difficulty is that the more primitve forms rely on simple drives (survival, procreation, etc.) and any consciousness present learns these protocols from animal experiences and is completely unable to acquire the right consciousness absent external intervention. This produces a completely carnal and physically oriented (read: sinful) consciousness. Any interventions and attempts to influence through such carnal minds simply get misconstrued by this physical and carnal milieu.
The mistake in using these ancient recordings as incidences of spiritual inspiration is that they are interpreted carnally and physically . . . as if they had anything at all to do with the physical world and its historical or scientific content. They are attempts to influence the spiritual development of human consciousness in the right direction . . . but they failed to do that. Jesus is the manifestation of the method designed to correct ALL the earlier misunderstandings produced by the veil of ignorance engendered by our carnality. He was reasonably successful . . . certainly demonstrating the key characteristic unambiguously . . . LOVE . . . but His success was quickly overcome by our continuing carnality and human weaknesses producing magical and superstitious and irrational interpretations of His existence.
It is His consciousness . . . available to ALL human consciousness . . . that is the key to properly attuning our consciousnesses to God consciousness, period. There is NO OTHER consciousness that has attained that perfect resonance . . . i.e. He is the only "way" for OUR species on this planet. The misunderstandings and erroneous rationalizations for WHY He is the only way are irrelevant . . . it is what it is. Getting hung up on the beliefs or rationalizations that motivate trying to attune oneself to Jesus consciousness in "love of God and each other" is pointless.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 10-03-2009 at 03:28 PM..
I would love to meet a Christian saying that they loved God, but don't believe in all the hogwash of what they call the "Bible". Granted, there are a few passages in there that talks about morals, which were interesting. Take those out and combine them into one book and dump the storytelling out. It would save many future trees for the next generation (what's the book count again nowadays? 50?)
I would love to meet a Christian saying that they loved God, but don't believe in all the hogwash of what they call the "Bible". Granted, there are a few passages in there that talks about morals, which were interesting. Take those out and combine them into one book and dump the storytelling out. It would save many future trees for the next generation (what's the book count again nowadays? 50?)
There are many, many esoteric / mystical Christians (past and present) that are not "biblical" and who are overflowing with love for the Divine, for "God", for Christ and many of them that i'm familiar with are quite elevated.
Last edited by coyoteskye; 10-03-2009 at 07:48 PM..
God of the gaps? Mystic like to preach "knowledge of the gaps".
You make a lot of bs claims, and the only logical proof you present, is "well we don't know this, so we must accept my assumptions".
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Brand name confusion
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