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The Bible states that "ben elohim laqach bath Adam" -sons of God took/married daughters of Adam- and went in to them [had sexual relations] and got sons/offspring who were the giants in the earth before the flood and after the flood.
Enoch is Scripture in the Ethiopian Orthodox and coptic Bible, and always has been. They were Jews who received the Savior and kept their sacred writings which Rome later -hundreds of years later- banned. They never banned it, and they kept it in their Bible/collection of books, which they called "Sacred". -Bible means "Collection of Books". Canon means "list", and their list includes Enoch, and so does mine.
Enoch was "Scripture to Jesus Christ" and to His disciples and brothers and to many early Church fathers [so called 'fathers', but a father is not born after the baby, and they are after the Church is born] also called Enoch Scripture, like Barnabas, Tertullien, and many, many others, besides the Ethiopian Jews and the community of the sons of Zadok who left the Dead Sea Scrolls with many copies of 1 Enoch which they studied as Scripture.
Jesus called Enoch's writings "Scripture", when he rebuked the Saducees for not knowing the Scripture that told that in heaven the angels do not marry and that the ones attaining eternal life are equal with and companions of the angels in heaven who do not marry. -That is the doctrine of the angels in heaven revealed in 1 Enoch, and the doctrine of the human race who are translated in bodies made for glory, and are the redeemed "elect" sons of God, redeemed in the name of the Son of God who was to come.
Jesus also called Enoch the "The Wisdom of God", for in the dream visions of Enoch, he was shown that the chosen elect people [Israel] would forsake Him and kill His Apostles and prophets, which they did do.
Jesus preached about His Gospel as it is revealed in 1 Enoch, for He is the Son of Man in heaven who was with God and who was God, hidden in God, and whose name, "Israel", as second Man who was to come, was secret and hidden, as Enoch revealed [until He gave it to Jacob].
In Enoch, YHWH swore that unto Him, the Son of Man, revealed, every knee would bow and every tongue confess. YHWH repeats that in Isaiah, and says "He already said it" [in Enoch], and Paul states that it is Jesus to whom every knee will bow and every tongue confess, and Paul knew that YHWH, to whom all confess, as in Isaiah, was Jesus Christ, because Paul was a student of Enoch and knew who the Son of Man was, who was seen hidden, in Enoch, and who is now come in flesh. And Paul knew that the Redeemer revealed as hidden in heaven, by Enoch, in whose name the "elect" who choose the elect life, were to be -and now are- saved, is Jesus Christ.
Perhaps you could 'clarify' for the ignorant among us which books 'should' be used by christians since you seem to randomly pick and choose between books of the bible....and any other extra biblical books that' you feel are correct',while dismissing any extra biblical books that you dont feel are correct.What should be the standard?If the ethiopians use it its automatically canon?Or coptic?Is the 'coptic gospel of Thomas 'scripture?The coptic apocalypse of Peter?The gospel of the egyptians?The gospel of peter?The gospel of mary?The letter of barnabas?The books found at nag hammadi were apparently hidden by egyptian christians to prevent their destruction on orders from rome,so if the egyptian christians accepted them we should too?Which of the three versions of the 'book of jasher' is the 'real' one....how do we know any of the three is real?Which books are contained in your canononical list ?How do you decide?Perhaps you could compile all of the 'correct' books into your own binding of the bible so we won't be misled about which books are 'true'
If someone does not believe in the nephilim that's great. Genesis 6:4 speaks of them so it's bible and nothing wrong with us discussing it. This thread was started on the Christianity site in Nov. 09 and was later moved.
This thread was not initiated to pick any fight whatsoever with any Neo-Darwist trolls.
Last edited by FreeThinkerInTex; 01-09-2010 at 02:48 AM..
Perhaps you could 'clarify' for the ignorant among us which books 'should' be used by christians since you seem to randomly pick and choose between books of the bible....and any other extra biblical books that' you feel are correct',while dismissing any extra biblical books that you dont feel are correct.What should be the standard?If the ethiopians use it its automatically canon?Or coptic?Is the 'coptic gospel of Thomas 'scripture?The coptic apocalypse of Peter?The gospel of the egyptians?The gospel of peter?The gospel of mary?The letter of barnabas?The books found at nag hammadi were apparently hidden by egyptian christians to prevent their destruction on orders from rome,so if the egyptian christians accepted them we should too?Which of the three versions of the 'book of jasher' is the 'real' one....how do we know any of the three is real?Which books are contained in your canononical list ?How do you decide?Perhaps you could compile all of the 'correct' books into your own binding of the bible so we won't be misled about which books are 'true'
Canon means list. Bible means collection of books. Scripture means writings.
Here's an education for you on what writings New Testament Believers hold in their lists, worldwide: http://gbgm-umc.org/umw/bible/canon2.stm
I accept the "Canon" of the Ethiopian Coptic Christians, as they were first, Jews, and then born again in Christ believers; and Salvation is "of the Jews" [Jesus/Salvation was born into Israel], not "of Rome"; but their addition of the Jewish history in the middle ages is not one I read or have a need to read.
I also have the Book of Jasher in my collection of writings [the only one which correlates completely with Moses' Genesis record], translated to English by Parry in 1840.
I also have in my "list" of writings the complete translation of the Dead Sea Scrolls.
But as Jesus said, the letter kills, the Spirit gives Life; and He gave me Life before I ever began to "study to show myself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed".
Not all "canon" is inspired, as the Jews themselves will tell you, but it is all beneficial for instruction. Look at the book of Tobit, for instance, an inspiring story, like Joshua and Esther, but not a "thus saith YHWH" book, as none of the history books [of the "Holy Bible"] are, which are included in most everyone's "list".
If a book does not correlate with all that is inspired, by Moses and by Enoch, who was first and was for all the world, then that book is a lie.
There is no other "Word" for the world than He who is YHWH, who is the Person of the Word and who is come in flesh. His Gospel is true, and nothing written which lies against His Gospel or refutes it in any shape, manner or form, is true or to be believed.
One may read whatever they wish to read, but there is only one Truth, and His name is Jesus.
And just so you know, there is one "Scripture/Writing of Truth", written by God the Word in heaven, and Enoch saw it and Daniel was instructed by an angel from it, on what would befall his people from then, to the end of days.
Literally, Daniel 10:21 says: "I will show you what is written in the Scripture of Truth. And one binds with me in these things, Michael, your prince".
Enoch saw those tablets in heaven written there for angels to be instructed by, for what will befall the sons of Adam from the beginning of creation to the end of this world.
Last edited by yeshuasavedme; 01-09-2010 at 10:40 AM..
If someone does not believe in the nephilim that's great. Genesis 6:4 speaks of them so it's bible and nothing wrong with us discussing it. This thread was started on the Christianity site in Nov. 09 and was later moved.
This thread was not initiated to pick any fight whatsoever with any Neo-Darwist trolls.
It's very existance demands address.
The idea of a race of "giant humans" is simply laughable, as is any belief in such.
There is no fossil evidence, basic physiology disproves them, and the ONLY source for said giants comes from a source already torn to shreds in the credibility department.
If someone does not believe in the nephilim that's great. Genesis 6:4 speaks of them so it's bible and nothing wrong with us discussing it. This thread was started on the Christianity site in Nov. 09 and was later moved.
This thread was not initiated to pick any fight whatsoever with any Neo-Darwist trolls.
What is a Neo-Darwinist troll, and why are YECers so hung up on Darwin?
I put your nephilim myth on the same level as the old Jack and the beanstalk story....They have equal credibility.
The idea of a race of "giant humans" is simply laughable, as is any belief in such.
There is no fossil evidence, basic physiology disproves them, and the ONLY source for said giants comes from a source already torn to shreds in the credibility department.
That's the same department who was in charge of the fraudulent global warming scam, isn't it? Yep, thought so!
As to fossil evidence, you have to have your head in the sand -or somewhere in dark places- to ignore the historical writings and historical artifacts and megaliths abounding around the world, which tell of, and give evidence of, giants in the earth.
It seems the question centers around the word "giants" and can only be considered to must mean something physically tall. However, that's not the only way to explain and understand it.
From Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary (in reference to Genesis 6:4) "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."
Giants-The term in Hebrew implies not so much the idea of great stature as of reckless ferocity, impious and daring characters, who spread devastation and carnage far and wide.
The point is that these "giants" were not necessarily 10-feet tall or 30-feet tall ogres, but rather by ordinary men who had a widely known reputation of devastation.
The "giants" were the offspring of the "sons of God" and "daughters of men". Look back at Genesis 6:1,2
1. And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2. "That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose." The sons of God saw the daughters of men-By the former is meant the family of Seth, who were professedly religious; by the latter, the descendants of apostate Cain. Mixed marriages between parties of opposite principles and practice were necessarily sources of extensive corruption. The women, religious themselves, would as wives and mothers exert an influence fatal to the existence of religion in their household, and consequently the people of that later age sank to the lowest depravity.
I'm not saying this commentary is the only explanation, but it certainly sounds a lot more feasible than imagining a bunch of mutated monsters that were the result of genetic manipulation. There is nothing in Genesis 6 that says anything about how tall these "giants" were.
I'm not saying this commentary is the only explanation, but it certainly sounds a lot more feasible than imagining a bunch of mutated monsters that were the result of genetic manipulation. There is nothing in Genesis 6 that says anything about how tall these "giants" were.
Certainly it sounds feasible, but tell that to the YECers posting photshopped archeological digs and plaster bones.
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