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1. Why is it you try and push your definition of "morality" into government policy, essentially using mass societal acceptance of religion and religious philosophy, to limit the rights of others (namely gays)?
Our religion is as much our lifestyle as your lifestyle is yours. By your reasoning you should lay down your claims and be more tolerable of our worldview. We can't help being Christian, it isn't a choice. I'd show ya the verse but you've tied my hands to that in your OP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sous777
2. Why are you always so concerned with the "sins" of others? Isn't it true Jesus said to love sinners, rather than condemn them? Isn't that your God's duty, rather than yours?
You are absolutely right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sous777
3. Why do you choose to ignore some verses while focusing on others?
That is exactly what you have done in your OP. Gee kettle, you sure are black! But, again, to 'honor' your OP, I won't use scripture...just know this...it's there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sous777
So in all this, my question to Christians is why the double standard?* Why hold gays to a different standard than you do any other "sinner"?** Why the push to pass your definition of morality onto others?*** Why attempt to limit the rights of those you deem "sinners"?****
Let's see, in order:
*We(I) don't.
**We(I) don't.
***I'm not trying to push my definition of morality on anyone, but I have a right to free speech. I have as much of a right to speak for what I believe in as you do.
****I'm all for doing whatever legally necessary to cover the concerns of legal, health-care POA, survivorship rights, etc....but I am opposed to creating some sort of 'legal' marriage to do it. We should be able to create (and I believe we already can) legal protection for anyone wanting to convey their wishes/decision making/POA to another. Regardless of sex, reationship, marital status or anything else.
Hope that helps.
Now about your OP:
How can you say 'no scripture' then start using it.<--A joke!
Look at the Old Testament and look at the history of the Israelites. When they had righteous leaders and the people followed God, their lives prospered. This not discount the fact that there was discord and sin within ranks but it was dealt with.
Now look at their lives when they rebelled against God and their were all sorts of maladies as a result of sin and perversion.
One needs only to look in Scripture to find what God finds abhorrant and inacceptable. He is a Holy Righteous God and wants ALL of His children to follow the guidelines He set for us because He knows that we will live a much better quality of life in doing so.
Fast forward to today's culture and just look around you. For the most part, we have turned our backs on God and we are reaping the consequences. This is not coincidental that it mirrors what the Israelites faced during their lives. God wants all to come to Him that they may live and it is our responsibility to get His Word out so that people can make that choice. If people reject us, they reject God and we can't force that issue but we still must make the effort to preach His Word in a loving way.
I know a lot of people will either agree or disagree with me but I see things as they are and I know a lot of others will agree. Hope this sheds some light on things. God bless.
Sous, your post brought out many interesting questions, but much of it was stated in a very aggressive, "prove it" kind of way, so I can't see there's any way you're going to get legitimate answers. You're only going to get one of the following:
1. "Good one, I feel the same way!" (But no answers.)
2. Defensiveness on the part of Christians and a lot of rolling-eyeball emoticons.
Keep searching. Keep digging. Do research. A lot of research! And ask. Ask ask ask ask ask. But if you're legitimately asking, then ask rather than accusing (I accuse too, but only when I'm not actually hanging my star on real answers). Do your homework. There's no way your answers will all come to you in one post. Or even one year or probably one decade. I'm on a similar search to yours, I think. It's a journey and a seriously long one. Keep plugging away and if you ever want to PM to compare notes, please look me up.
I have been on this board long enough to know that trying to address everything you said is pointless. You seem angry at Christians and I can't really say anything to change that.
It's not pointless. I specifically asked Christians for thier views on what I had to say. How is pointing out inaccuracies in the Bible and questioning Christianity and the basis of your beliefs being "angry at Christians"?
I guess using that logic I could say, "Christians are angry at gays because they refuse to let them be and attempt to limit their rights".
What a contradiction you yourself do. First you say don't use Scripture then you use it? Are you serious? I'm not going to waste my time.
I used scripture to make a point - in this case a point that suggests Jesus was a false prophet, proving that scripture interpretation is up to the individual. No where else in my argument is there scripture.
I didn't want this to turn into a scripture after scripture argument...because I said, that's wasting my time. Since the subject is homosexuality, it is already obvious what scripture is in question - Leviticus and Romans.
Therefore it would be unneccessary to bring up scriptures which do not pertain to these.
Our religion is as much our lifestyle as your lifestyle is yours. By your reasoning you should lay down your claims and be more tolerable of our worldview. We can't help being Christian, it isn't a choice. I'd show ya the verse but you've tied my hands to that in your OP.
First of all, I'm not gay. And secondly, I fully respect and acknowledge your lifestyle. I only have a problem with it when Christians rally, using their religion, as a weapon to deny others rights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207
That is exactly what you have done in your OP. Gee kettle, you sure are black! But, again, to 'honor' your OP, I won't use scripture...just know this...it's there.
If you really believe using scripture will advance your argument, go right ahead. I used two verses to argue against Jesus' alleged "powers". Just as you use it to condemn gays - with quotes from Leviticus and Romans.
My point was that I didn't want this to get off subject with verse after verse. I wanted us to specifically discuss this issue. But again, do what you want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207
***I'm not trying to push my definition of morality on anyone, but I have a right to free speech. I have as much of a right to speak for what I believe in as you do.
You do have that right. As I said, it only becomes a problem when Christian indoctrination entagles itself with government policy and legislation. Christians allege gays shouldn't marry, but then they actually take measures to make sure it doesn't happen. Thats the problem.
You can believe in your Bible all day and all night. But when you take it to the next step you've crossed the line. I don't see gays rallying for a stronger separation of church and state - trying to push Christian ideology out of the government with the same zeal that I do Christians with gays.
I don't see gays rallying for a stronger separation of church and state - trying to push Christian ideology out of the government with the same zeal that I do Christians with gays.
I'm sorry, but that's exactly what this thread looks like.
How is one post, written by someone who supports gay equal rights, rallying the way Christians do to deny gay marriage?
Like I said, it's power in numbers.
And you haven't addressed any of my other points.
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I'd show ya the verse but you've tied my hands to that in your OP.
