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Anything beyond basic mammalian procreative instinct...it's all just a matter of what we think "turns us on" and "trips our trigger"...nothing else along those lines is "innate".
Some people are incredibly turned on by things that others not only don't find to be a turn-on...but are grossed-out and repulsed by it. But regardless of others revulsion...those people really are mentally stimulated in such a way that it manifests as being sexually aroused. Of course that is all just "in their head".
Now...because of the prejudice, bias, and resulting persecution some fetishes (such as same-gender sex) get based on some arbitrary religious dogma that claims those fetishes to be "sin"...that has stimulated a "movement" so-to-speak, to try to say that people are "born that way", and have an innate proclivity for certain fetishes.
Of course, they claim other fetishes are chosen...especially those that are not so heavily judged with a prejudicial view. This is demonstrative of the error of their claims.
If there was no prejudice and bias against those who are turned on by homosex and/or into homoaffection & homolove...no one would have ever said, or tried to purport that, people are "born that way".
MOF, it was listed in the DSM (I believe, erroneously...but then, that's "science" for ya sometimes) to be a "mental disorder" up until not very long ago.
Well, only half erroneous...it IS mental...but it's NOT a "disorder".
Nothing that is done between consenting adults...that doesn't cause any permanent physical harm...is anything more than just the sexual activity and/or relationship choices those people make. And if anyone has a problem with it...that's their headtrip issue.
I've known dozens of people that were in relationships (even marriages) with one gender, breakup for whatever reason, then have a relationship with the other gender. Lots of people roll like that...and as time goes on you'll see it more and more.
Homosexuality IS a choice. There is no evidence to suggest that homosexuality is natural in anyway.
Except you are simply wrong here. We observe varieties of it in Nature. Therefore it is naturally occurring. Therefore it is natural.
We also see many statistics and attributes common across the whole field of homosexuality suggesting strongly it has a genetic element.
So your "no evidence" claim is simply in error. You however have "no evidence" that it is a choice in most cases. Nor have you presented any evidence that people can CHOOSE to be attracted to someone they simply are not attracted to.
I know for 100% sure one thing: I can not. I simply can not choose, force or delude myself into sexual attraction for any person or thing that I am not attracted to. And trust me, given some of the sexual offers I have been given: I tried real hard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amercity
The reality is when you have a lack of men figures in your life and when you allow people to do activities that were meant specifically for only one gender, you allow more people to become gay.
I trust since you threw the word "evidence" into your post, you have some statistical meta study you can reference to show that homosexuality has a causal link with lack of "men figures" in their life?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amercity
And dont tell me homosexuality is "normal". If it was normal how come they dont reproduce?
Since when have "reproduce" and "normal" become synonyms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amercity
what would be the evolutionary point of homosexuality?
There are several answers to this. But the easiest fact to give you is that there are MANY MANY species on our planet that are simply replete with non-reproducing elements. And these fact strengthens not weakens those species. So yes, having individuals in your species that do not reproduce has MANY evolutionary "points" for it. If you have questions on this, I am well placed to answer them for you. Go for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-o
Its confusion, simple as that. If they were truly homos (and not bi), they couldnt breed, and would have gone extinct.
Not so at all. A lack of breeding would not lead to extinction of an attribute within a species. It simply does not work that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule
Now...because of the prejudice, bias, and resulting persecution some fetishes (such as same-gender sex)
Not for the first time I recommend you check out the definition of fetish in order that you do not continue to misapply it so readily and so often.
Also have you any evidence at all that the movement for homosexual equality and rights is motivated by a reactionary response to the church and religions calling it sin?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule
MOF, it was listed in the DSM (I believe, erroneously...but then, that's "science" for ya sometimes) to be a "mental disorder" up until not very long ago.
So people keep saying. Firstly however I would not take too seriously what is listed in the DSM. I was informed recently for example that caffeine withdrawal was listed in it too.
Secondly however people tend to mention its presence on the DSM in order to dodge having to justify calling it a disorder. They can simply say "it was listed" and run away. What has NEVER been done for me, and I have asked 100s of people now, is to have them adumbrate for me the reasoning that had it placed on there in the first place.
When I ask that, all I see is a tail between legs of a retreating rear end.
What I do not see however is what distinction you are making between sexual attraction to an opposite sex person, and same sex person. In the latter case you are dismissing it as "just mental" but not distinguishing it from opposite sex attraction. Are you suggesting that is not "just mental" too? Or what exactly is the meat of your distinction exactly?
Homosexuality IS a choice. There is no evidence to suggest that homosexuality is natural in anyway. The reality is when you have a lack of men figures in your life and when you allow people to do activities that were meant specifically for only one gender, you allow more people to become gay. Society has slowly turned away from its original roots. And dont tell me homosexuality is "normal". If it was normal how come they dont reproduce? what would be the evolutionary point of homosexuality?
The statements you are making are based on nonsense debunked a long time ago. Where have you been?
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
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If one believes all homosexuality is a choice? I might ask.... did you go through puberty choosing which sex to your lusting went to? Did you have sexual attraction to both sexes? Then chose one? The answer for virtually all is no.
Therefore it reasons conforming to societies expectations and the stigma of being homosexual, has some conform by marrying and performing then in a chosen sexuality. Though did they truly stop lusting as they did since puberty? In which they didn't choose. Why the marriage broke up is most likely because the arrangement was against their true identity of sexual orientation. Not the suddenly wanted to try something new.
Those who believe in the sanctity of marriage in Gods eyes, therefore should not want them to be unevenly yoked? Which is in the bible. Many when in puberty find they lust for the opposite of the expected norm. They may suppress that side to try to conform? But their true side being biological and hormonally awakened in puberty. Did not change.
They should not want a gay lusting man marry the opposite sex if it is a not their true orientation. That marriage therefore cannot become as one flesh. It is actually sinful in it denies their partner the truth and deprives them of true love of a marriage which is to become as one flesh.
It is better to marry then to burn (in lust). Is in the bible. But not if it is a lie deceiving their partner in the secret the hid of their true lust and orientation. It is unevenly being yoked and sin by deception and lie.
If there was no prejudice and bias against those who are turned on by homosex and/or into homoaffection & homolove...no one would have ever said, or tried to purport that, people are "born that way".
Nonsense. As I said earlier, the only reason why people think it's a choice is to avoid the problem of how God could create homosexuals and then condemn them. The fact that the vast, vast, vast majority of people who are against homosexuality are also highly religious only adds weight to my stance on this.
You are also assuming that just about every homosexual is a liar because they claim to have always been gay while you, on the other hand, trumpet that it must be a choice. Strange, though, don't you think, that homosexuals who might claim it WAS a choice are heavily influenced by fundamentalist religion and unaccepting loved ones? So really - can we honestly say that very many homosexuals admit without coersion that they chose to be gay somewhere along the line? No ... we cannot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule
I've known dozens of people that were in relationships (even marriages) with one gender, breakup for whatever reason, then have a relationship with the other gender. Lots of people roll like that...and as time goes on you'll see it more and more.
I believe it has been pointed out that not everyone who engages in homosexual behavior are actually homosexuals. Therefore, you can't really make any sort of conclusions concerning the behavior of those who are actually gay by comparing it to the behaviors of people who are simply "bi-curious," truly bi-sexual, or who are just sexually adventurous.
Most true homosexuals that I've known are just as repulsed by the thought of sex with the opposite gender as many straights are in reference to sex with the same gender.
Even though we've come a long way, how the brain works is still somewhat of a mystery, thus, I wouldn't be so quick to assume that homosexuality is a choice - like choosing what to wear or what to have for breakfast.
Homosexuality IS a choice. There is no evidence to suggest that homosexuality is natural in anyway. The reality is when you have a lack of men figures in your life and when you allow people to do activities that were meant specifically for only one gender, you allow more people to become gay. Society has slowly turned away from its original roots. And dont tell me homosexuality is "normal". If it was normal how come they dont reproduce? what would be the evolutionary point of homosexuality?
Obviously you never took any science classes in school .
Homosexuality IS a choice. There is no evidence to suggest that homosexuality is natural in anyway. The reality is when you have a lack of men figures in your life and when you allow people to do activities that were meant specifically for only one gender, you allow more people to become gay.
I did not read this entire thread, but find this post interesting. So what about my gay friend who was raised in a very traditional Latin American, Catholic family where the men are supposed to be strong, athletic macho guys. He had more than one man figure in his life because his family was big and very close. He had his dad, his uncles, grandfathers, and older, athletic brothers. He went through a lot of depression all through high school because he was trying to fight back his feelings since he was taught men were supposed to be men, and knew his family would not be happy if he came out and told them he was gay.
Anything beyond basic mammalian procreative instinct...it's all just a matter of what we think "turns us on" and "trips our trigger"...nothing else along those lines is "innate".
Some people are incredibly turned on by things that others not only don't find to be a turn-on...but are grossed-out and repulsed by it. But regardless of others revulsion...those people really are mentally stimulated in such a way that it manifests as being sexually aroused. Of course that is all just "in their head".
Now...because of the prejudice, bias, and resulting persecution some fetishes (such as same-gender sex) get based on some arbitrary religious dogma that claims those fetishes to be "sin"...that has stimulated a "movement" so-to-speak, to try to say that people are "born that way", and have an innate proclivity for certain fetishes.
Of course, they claim other fetishes are chosen...especially those that are not so heavily judged with a prejudicial view. This is demonstrative of the error of their claims.
If there was no prejudice and bias against those who are turned on by homosex and/or into homoaffection & homolove...no one would have ever said, or tried to purport that, people are "born that way".
MOF, it was listed in the DSM (I believe, erroneously...but then, that's "science" for ya sometimes) to be a "mental disorder" up until not very long ago.
Well, only half erroneous...it IS mental...but it's NOT a "disorder".
Nothing that is done between consenting adults...that doesn't cause any permanent physical harm...is anything more than just the sexual activity and/or relationship choices those people make. And if anyone has a problem with it...that's their headtrip issue.
I've known dozens of people that were in relationships (even marriages) with one gender, breakup for whatever reason, then have a relationship with the other gender. Lots of people roll like that...and as time goes on you'll see it more and more.
I wish I could have gotten the point across like this. All I succeeded in doing was convincing people that I was telling them gays could change, and they somehow expected that meant I wanted them to change.
Look, we humans do have free will. Love is about that. If I want to have sex with men, women, dogs, whatever it's really between me and God. It's wrong to make some sort of label "you must be X or Y." We have turn-ons and turn-offs. It takes little for me to feel affection but alot to make me fall deeply in love. If a man or woman, black/white/asian/etc, whatever religion or politics, made me feel that deeply, I'd want to cuddle close to them and do whatever they needed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by revrandy
What does cross dressing have to do with sexuality and sexual attraction? Just because someone dresses as the opposite gender, does not mean they are interested sexually to the same gender.
Because I'm transgender. And most transgenders will use some excuse about "being born in the wrong body" and acting like they too have a genetic condition. I can pin down the way I feel to specific past experiences. So, I believe a similar pattern exists when predicting sexuality. Example: I'm bisexual, not cuz I was born that way, but because I tried to be straight and realized I might also like guys.
Last edited by bulmabriefs144; 10-16-2014 at 10:58 AM..
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