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"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." Isa 45:7
Bad translation
Create in its root means cut down or cut off
So that scripture should have read
"I form the light, and cut down darkness: I make peace, and cut down evil: I the LORD do all these things."
Yet neither the......
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....appear to support your claim. I guess they are all wrong and you're right huh?
Yet neither the......
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The Message
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King James
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....appear to support your claim. I guess they are all wrong and you're right huh?
Simply put, YES, I am right and they are wrong.
I supported what I wrote throught NT scripture, you can either except it or reject it.
So tell me how you reconcile
God created evil with
Love worketh NO evil and Love thinketh NO evil
A good tree CANNOT bring forth evil fruit, and an evil tree CANNOT bring forth good fruit
either make the tree GOOD and its fruit GOOD or make the tree EVIL and it fruit EVIL
Jesus came to reveil the Father to us for a reason.
One of those reasons was because the Jews of old, like most christians today, have a wrong view of God. That view, as can be seen when reading the OT is of a God who is both good and evil.
Jesus corrected this view when He said
either make the tree GOOD and its fruit GOOD or make the tree EVIL and it fruit EVIL
I take my view of the Father from what Jesus knew of Him, NOT from the view of the Israel of old who never understood the Father.
A layman's education level in Biblical hermeneutics wouldn't do much for your credibility.
How do you know my level of education? Oh wait, I must be ignorant because I disagree with your opinion of what the Bible says.
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Once again, we're straying from the OP. As I already stated, any honest study of history will bear out the accuracy of my assessment.
Yet another snide comment, this time implying I'm being dishonest.
It appears that it's not possible for you to discuss a topic without insulting someone. Perhaps that's what separates the laymen from the experts in Biblical hermeneutics?
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KCfromNC, we all have views on morality. It's not possible to have any society exist in a moral vacuum. Hence, no matter what form of government you have one group must inevitably force it's view of morality on the other groups or groups. Think about it.
The question is not whether or not morality will be forced but which morality will be forced.
Thanks for making my point for me. Force is not an issue at all, which makes me wonder why you brought it up in the first place.
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What else can I say, I call it the way I see it.
Then apparently you see lots of things as valid excuses to insult rather than discuss. No point in continuing if you're going to have that sort of attitude. Nice example you're setting of the kind of effects we'd see if your superior moral system were more widespread.
I supported what I wrote throught NT scripture, you can either except it or reject it.
I reject it.
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So tell me how you reconcile
I don't have to reconcile anything pal. You're claiming that all the other Bibles in existence have it wrong and that you alone have the correct translation. You reconcile it not me.
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I take my view of the Father from what Jesus knew of Him, NOT from the view of the Israel of old who never understood the Father.
....even though they invented him...you know better. Fair enough!!
Suffering is just a part of life...but some suffer more than others and suffering makes no one "perfect". Millions of innocent children die horrifying deaths of starvation each and every day...go tell their mothers that god is making them perfect while they suffer. Tell it to the mothers of children who are brutally raped and murdered each and every day. Tell it to the mothers whose children are sexually abused by the clergy each and every day. Tell it to all the holocaust survivors or to the relatives of those who didn't survive or to all of the people currently living in war torn countries. It's easy for us to make up explanations for why these things happen in this life because most of us won't have to experience these things. I would venture to say that most would be pretty PO'd at their godman in the sky if they watched their children starve to death.
We live, some are poor and struggle while some are rich and have it easy, we have good days, we have bad days, some type of tragedy happens in most people lives, we all lose family members and mourn their loss, we all die...it's just life. Bad stuff happens to good people and to bad people...Good stuff happens to good people and to bad people...it's just life. While some do learn to cope and push on past their meager sufferings in this country so they can continue living...some do not and they are the ones who end up committing suicide because their suffering becomes too great for them...how perfect did god make them?
I don't understand why people feel the need to have an explanation for all that happens in this life. It's just life. Attributing these things to the godman in the sky and then saying it makes people perfect...is a seriously delusional reality and is extremely disrespectful and inhumane to those who have truly suffered for no good reason at all.
Christians claim he answers when he's called upon, yeah right
Let me be honest suffering is in our own hands not god's hands and if we are fortunate it is the place and background we come from not God's blessings. Truly there are people that have a good heart and work so hard but get so little in life and on the other hand there are some that do so little to strive for money but they are fortune.
unfortunately suffering does not vary on degree of your religious belief, it is random whether you atheist, agnostic or theist we face and go through the same struggle. if there is a God then he never favours anyone he only helps those who help themselves including non believers.
How do you know my level of education? Oh wait, I must be ignorant because I disagree with your opinion of what the Bible says.
Reread my post - I didn't infer that you are a layman. I asked what your qualifications are. I stated that a layman's level wouldn't (as in, in the event that you are in fact a layman) do much for your credibility.
The fact that you're apparently so touchy over this speaks volumes.
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Originally Posted by KCfromNC
Yet another snide comment, this time implying I'm being dishonest.
If you choose to ignore or overlook the impact of 20 century atheistic totalitarian regimes, well, yes, that would qualify as dishonest.
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Originally Posted by KCfromNC
It appears that it's not possible for you to discuss a topic without insulting someone. Perhaps that's what separates the laymen from the experts in Biblical hermeneutics?
I just tell the truth. For many, the truth is insulting.
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Originally Posted by KCfromNC
Thanks for making my point for me. Force is not an issue at all, which makes me wonder why you brought it up in the first place.
I brought up force because the manner it which morality is forced is an issue. I do believe there are differences between western style democratic forms of government and socialist totalitarianism.
Originally Posted by pneuma Simply put, YES, I am right and they are wrong.
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Oh, that's OK then!
Rafius-what makes you think the men/women who translated that scripture are infallible?
Seems to me by this post you do not beleive the scriptures, yet beleive those who translated the scriptures are infallible.
All you really have to do is look into the meaning of the word create and you will see what I presented is correct.
The reason the translator never used cut down or cut out to translate create is because they could not understand how God could be said to create by cuting down or cutting out.
But it is really rather simple, that is if you beleive anything in the scriptures.
God creates by His word
His word is a two edged sword used to divide one substance from another
David prayed that God would create in him a clean heart
That creation of a clean heart is referred to as circumscission
How is one circumscissed?
Is it not by cutting away the foreskin?
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I supported what I wrote throught NT scripture, you can either except it or reject it.
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I reject it.
As many do
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So tell me how you reconcile
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I don't have to reconcile anything pal. You're claiming that all the other Bibles in existence have it wrong and that you alone have the correct translation. You reconcile it not me.
I Already have reconciled it, and again you seem to think the transaltors of the bibles are infallible.
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I take my view of the Father from what Jesus knew of Him, NOT from the view of the Israel of old who never understood the Father.
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....even though they invented him...you know better. Fair enough!!
In a way you are correct that they invented Him, they did not know the Father and thus gave Him the same traits that they themselves had. Traits that are both good and evil, they simply made God after themselves instead of being made like God.
God said let us make man after our image and likeness, and man says no way let us make God after our image and likeness, thus changing the incorruptible God into the image of corruptible man.
And this can be seen throughout the OT, they wrote of God being good and evil, thus Jesus came to correct that view by revealing the Father and He said
An good tree cannot bring forth evil, neither can an evil tree bring forth good.
Tis one of the reason when on the MT of transfigureation when Peter wanted to build temples for Moses, Elijah and Jesus God corrected him/Peter and said this is my beloved son HEAR HIM.
It is up to the readers of the scripture whose view they will listen to, Moses?, Elijah? or Jesus Christ?
But that is precisely what the 'believers' on this thread are doing.
I am a beleiver and I do not beleive God is responsible for any of the crap in the world.
Please don't lump all beleivers into one catagory.
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