Landlord seeks advice renting pool property to family with small children (evictions, rental)
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You really think this is going to remain legal and you will have zero liability?
There will be photos dated after your "fence photos" and it will show the fence not being there and I bet there will even be photos of the fence being stored somewhere.
Then you will have more liability than you ever fathomed.
Actually, it depends. If the OP were able to provide documentation that the pool and it's protection measures met all codes and laws and it is later shown that the tenant removed or disabled such, the landlord has a very solid defense.
Remember, any lawsuit could only be based on negligence. Having the pool inspected on tenant move in (with regularly scheduled inspections thereafter) by a licensed contractor along with a pretty standard pool amendment for the lease would go a long ways in protecting the landlord's liability.
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Why not drain the pool and leave it drained with it written in the lease that the pool is not accessible to the renters. Put up a solid fence, put a lock on it, keep the keys and be done with it.
Always an option, but as that would deprive the tenants of the pool and valuable yard space, I would (as a tenant) require a rather significant reduction in the rent as a result.
Make sure the pool is completely up to date in every safety or code requirement. Yes it may cost you a few bucks. Then they can rent it. Get a LLC or make sure you have renter insurance on the house at the highest max coverage you can get. Make sure the insurance co knows you got a pool. Ask if there is any additional rider you can get on pool.
The tenant would have to show negligence on your part in order to sue also.
Personally?
Get rid of the pool completely. You can have the bottom punched out remove all the pump equipment and turn it in a giant planter with a few palm trees and a sand box in the center.
I would never buy a house with a pool as a rental. Too much liability and one less thing to maintain or to repair if it breaks. and not enough return really for the potential liability. For my personal use sure. But if it did have a pool and it was a rental I would demo the pool. Pools don't add much value when selling but they can turn away buyers
Why are you making a big deal not renting to kids just do not rent to them if they ask why just say you felt another person was better qualified.
Sorry I felt another person better matched my criteria if I have anything come up that I think you would like do you want me to call you.
First of all, I have to rent to kids. It is required by law, the Fair Housing Act.
Second, if somebody well qualified comes along while I'm investigating the cost of adding a pool fence then I guess I'll accept them instead. There is no have to take first qualified tenant as far as I know. Only then can I say that.
If I say there is a better qualified tenant came along and there isn't, then I am violating the law. One thing you will not find me doing is violating the law. Lovehound follows the law even when it costs him money.
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Originally Posted by Bosco55David
If you're reasonably adept with legalese, you can do an LLC yourself. Your local library should have books (NOLO is popular) on LLC formation. With something this big though, I'd at least have an attorney review it.
Aw, I incorporated myself just using the Internet and did it fine. An LLC is almost the same as a corporation, should be a breeze Googling DIY LLC. I laugh at those companies that will do it for $85 or something like that. For a California corporation you fill out one sheet, your Articles of Corporation, and file it with the California Secretary of State along with the appropriate fee. Funny thing though, the form isn't posted on the Internet! Essentially you write your own, but I found a few examples and Microsoft Word is my friend!
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Originally Posted by tworent
The art of picking the right tenant is 99% to what makes your life easy. The other is you if you read this board a big percent is landlords do not fixing things fast. If you have happy tenants you will be much better off so learn how to train them.
OMG I tell everybody and it's the truth, my tenants and their happiness are extremely important to me, as is the perfect condition of my houses. That's why I get top dollar for my rentals. I haven't been doing this long but I plan to keep my tenants until they move out for some reason other than dissatisfaction. At present I'm even planning on not raising the rent when the lease is up. A vacancy will cost me a couple thousand dollars. Not worth it over a few bucks rent increase.
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Originally Posted by Lauriedeee
In addition to fencing the pool area, why don't you get one of those heavy duty covers. You've probably seen the commercials where the elephant stands on the pool cover. The holders for the cover are drilled right into the concrete so the cover is stable.
Um, because I already spent all my money buying the houses? Actually a fence around the smallish patio would probably be less expensive and lower maintenance too.
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Originally Posted by CSD610
You really think this is going to remain legal and you will have zero liability?
There will be photos dated after your "fence photos" and it will show the fence not being there and I bet there will even be photos of the fence being stored somewhere.
Then you will have more liability than you ever fathomed.
Why not drain the pool and leave it drained with it written in the lease that the pool is not accessible to the renters. Put up a solid fence, put a lock on it, keep the keys and be done with it.
Uh, what??? Thank you for your reply but it's a bit impractical. For one, pools are what rents houses in Phoenix. Adds maybe $100-$200 a month at least.
Much simpler solution. Install fence. Take pictures. Then put clause in contract "tenant not to remove fence."
Actually if I have to go through with it I'll probably put in a permanent fence and be done with the problem. Good investment anyway. I plan on keeping my houses maybe 15 years.
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Originally Posted by Bosco55David
... Moving beyond that, your advice is resoundingly terrible as well. Let's say the OP takes your advice and denies some well qualified couple because they have a kid or two...
Long story short, it wouldn't take a whole lot of work to expose the lie, especially for people like yourself who are so unwise as to brag about it online.
And the fines and penalties render under the FHA can be steep, especially for deliberate and willful violators.
Not wanting to get into it, but yeah, that's what I mean. I do not mess with the government. I'm running a legitimate business and I intend to follow every law to the best of my ability. And I expect my tenants to take care of my houses and pay their rent on time. The two go together.
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Originally Posted by Bosco55David
Actually, it depends. If the OP were able to provide documentation that the pool and it's protection measures met all codes and laws and it is later shown that the tenant removed or disabled such, the landlord has a very solid defense.
Remember, any lawsuit could only be based on negligence. Having the pool inspected on tenant move in (with regularly scheduled inspections thereafter) by a licensed contractor along with a pretty standard pool amendment for the lease would go a long ways in protecting the landlord's liability.
I have my own trusted pool guy. I bet I can add a requirement to the lease that they retain MY pool guy. But anyway, unless the cost is prohibitive -- I doubt it -- I'll just fence the patio -- permanently.
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Originally Posted by Electrician4you
Get rid of the pool completely. You can have the bottom punched out remove all the pump equipment and turn it in a giant planter with a few palm trees and a sand box in the center.
I would never buy a house with a pool as a rental. Too much liability and one less thing to maintain or to repair if it breaks. and not enough return really for the potential liability. For my personal use sure. But if it did have a pool and it was a rental I would demo the pool. Pools don't add much value when selling but they can turn away buyers
Man, it's Phoenix!!! People in hell want ice water. People in Phoenix want pools! I get top dollar for my rentals because they all have pools and they are all in perfect shape in really good neighborhoods.
I don't know if you are a landlord but I do know you don't understand my market. But thanks for your comments anyway.
I have my own trusted pool guy. I bet I can add a requirement to the lease that they retain MY pool guy. But anyway, unless the cost is prohibitive -- I doubt it -- I'll just fence the patio -- permanently.
All you need do is is add in "pool cleaning and maintenance" to the clause in your lease which indicates what's included in the rent. You contract with your own pool person to do it. From having many friends who own rental homes with pools, it is far far better to take care of this yourself than rely on the tenants to do so.
First, I'd just like to point out that you are the same person expressing such moral outrage about disabled people "screwing" landlords to whom they couldn't make rent to, demanding they "do the right thing". You are now advocating another poster violate state and federal laws.
You're so hypocritical, it's almost funny.
Almost.
Moving beyond that, your advice is resoundingly terrible as well. Let's say the OP takes your advice and denies some well qualified couple because they have a kid or two. Say that couple has a feeling they were discriminated against. It takes one call to a civil rights attorney (many who work on contingencies, meaning little to no money up front) to have a lawsuit filed. Since this is regarding a federal law as well as a state law, they are almost certain to file in federal court where the rules of discovery are much stronger than in most states.
And lets say that the couple the OP discriminated against has a really good lawyer who not only files for discovery requiring the OP to turn over documents such as the prerequisites for prospective tenants and the applications/background results from other applicants, but also files interrogatories requiring the OP to disclose things like this:
- The address of discussion forums such as this that the OP posts on as well as the user name.
- The ISP(s) used (so they can subpoena the ISP to determine if the OP lied about the forums they post on, at which point they'd be in even MORE trouble).
Long story short, it wouldn't take a whole lot of work to expose the lie, especially for people like yourself who are so unwise as to brag about it online.
And the fines and penalties render under the FHA can be steep, especially for deliberate and willful violators.
If you do not pay your rent and the landlord supplied you with a nice place to live for the price you agreed on, disabled or not you are screwing the landlord.
Yeah, I know, but you add in pool guy you have to up the price. You up the price and fewer people are interested, even though you know the real cost to the tenant is the combined cost.
I can get a pool guy for less than an individual because I get a landlord rate, but by the time I pay taxes on the total rent my savings vanishes in income taxes.
I have a rental -- thankfully with a tweener daughter -- who are starting in later this month, and I'm going to offer to pay the pool guy to the end of the month for him if they'll try him for a month or two and see if they like him. I really like my pool guy, he does all kinds of filter and water feature repairs too, and I'll pay him before the job is done, and not even inspect his work.
When you are a landlord -- particularly when you live 450 miles away -- you need a team. Over the last 4 months I've built up a pretty good team! I did have to pop out a Realtor and replace her when she broke. I also got a lesson in ethics, Realtor, how not to.
were did I say not to rent to them because they have kids.
That would be here:
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Originally Posted by tworent
Why are you making a big deal not renting to kids just do not rent to them if they ask why just say you felt another person was better qualified. I see so many people get into trouble by offering up a big story I tell everyone two things.
I don't wanna get between you two guys. I appreciate all the replies in my topic. Some of the replies were a bit impractical, but I was entertained, and it's fun to get an interesting discussion of different ideas.
This topic really helped me zero in on the correct solution, and a legal one at that!
But if you own more than 3 houses and/or use a Realtor you have to obey the Fair Housing Act, and it says you cannot discriminate on the basis of renters having children. Game, set and match. Or whatever them tennies say.
First of all, I have to rent to kids. It is required by law, the Fair Housing Act.
Second, if somebody well qualified comes along while I'm investigating the cost of adding a pool fence then I guess I'll accept them instead. There is no have to take first qualified tenant as far as I know. Only then can I say that.
If I say there is a better qualified tenant came along and there isn't, then I am violating the law. One thing you will not find me doing is violating the law. Lovehound follows the law even when it costs him money.
In 30 years I have never had an applicant that I could not find a problem with that was with in the law. The law says you cannot discriminate because a person has kids no were does it say you have to rent to a person with kids. Big difference and I would never discriminate against anyone. I have bought maybe 5-6 houses with pools all were filled in with dirt. FYI if you ever do this make sure you take a jack hammer to the bottom first.
I don't wanna get between you two guys. I appreciate all the replies in my topic. Some of the replies were a bit impractical, but I was entertained, and it's fun to get an interesting discussion of different ideas.
This topic really helped me zero in on the correct solution, and a legal one at that!
But if you own more than 3 houses and/or use a Realtor you have to obey the Fair Housing Act, and it says you cannot discriminate on the basis of renters having children. Game, set and match. Or whatever them tennies say.
your right but I miss worded it I wanted to say find a better person because there will always be someone better down the road. Yes I have a few more then 3 I know the law.
In 30 years I have never had an applicant that I could not find a problem with that was with in the law. The law says you cannot discriminate because a person has kids no were does it say you have to rent to a person with kids. Big difference and I would never discriminate against anyone. I have bought maybe 5-6 houses with pools all were filled in with dirt. FYI if you ever do this make sure you take a jack hammer to the bottom first.
I respect your right to have an unusual point of view.
I could run a credit check on husband and wife and hope they have credit or crinimal background problems but I don't like to mess with people just because I can. I don't like to gamble either. And if they pass I have now given them a reason to mess with me back. Maybe they will get tried of waiting for me to investigate my legal liability and child proofing the house, getting estimates on the fence, installing it...
And I bet you never saw this coming. What if they decided to move to my area because they are members of C-D?
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Essentially you write your own, but I found a few examples and Microsoft Word is my friend! 
I also got a lesson in ethics, Realtor, how not to. 
