Landlord seeks advice renting pool property to family with small children (tenant, renter)
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Arizona property, Maricopa County, City of Mesa, pool in back yard is surrounded by house plus block wall and padlocked gate, so it complies with safety laws as far as persons entering from outside the property.
Some properties have an inner fence which complies with safety requirements but this isn't one of them. This is getting so complex that I'm getting dizzy. Of course the obvious is to just install an inner fence surrounding the pool, but that sounds like a lot of money to me, money I can't really afford unless it's unavoidable.
Before we get started with that, can I just refuse to rent to people with small children? No kids equals no problem.
I asked my Realtor about pool safety and whether the sliding self closing and locking patio door would be enough and she said I can't refuse to rent to children. She sent this email to her broker:
Quote:
Is there anything that you see in here that should concern a landlord? My client has a pool without a fence and is concerned with an app he received from a couple with a 7 year old. I told him that I didn't think that he can deny for famial status. Can I get your opinion?
His reply:
Quote:
I dont see anything of concern and yes it would be a fair housing violation. He should talk with his insurance provider for recommended coverage.
I already asked my insurance agent months ago and she said, "as long as it complies with Arizona state laws." She didn't even know that Maricopa County and City of Mesa have their own laws.
Realtor says the kid is 7 and it looks to me like the regulations apply only to properties with children under 6, but it still gives me a queasy feeling. All those regulations about windows and who knows what? I can't go measure that stuff because I'm in Los Angeles and the house is in Mesa.
If some kid drowns not only will I have it on my conscience but I could lose everything I own.
I can't just add a waiver to the rental contract, "tenant accepts liability for all pool safety regulations" because you cannot waive liability. That is a basic principle of law.
Can I refuse to rent to families with small children? Just because the broker says it so doesn't make it so.
Right now I'm getting estimates to install a fence, trying to figure out how to contact a lawyer or attorney, going to call my insurance agent again..... Maybe see if there is somebody I can hire to inspect the property and assure me it meets all regulations -- somebody with creditentials...
I guess I'm just doing it slowly -- today is Sunday and all I have now is the forum. It's convenient to say the kid is 7 and the law is under 6... Actually I'm hoping a White Knight rental applicant with no small kids will save my behind with another offer while I'm dithering.
I can run a credit check and hope the husband and/or wife fails, but this just gets me in deeper if they pass.
You've spoken to your agent who's spoken to her broker and you've spoken to your insurance agent, and they've all given you essentially the same answer. The next step would be to consult with an attorney.
You can't legally discriminate against families with children but you can carefully word your advertising to indicate that it's suitable for "mature adults" or something similar. An attorney can better advise you.
Your property is in another state and you have an agent so why are you dealing with all this?
Indiviuals who do are only renting a minimal number of units are exempt from Fair Housing regulations, the same is not true of real estate agents that make their living screening buyer or tenants...
I would not rely on insurance agent / company or real estate agent / broker to understand all the details of potential liability. In fact I am not at all sure I would even rely on my "regular" real estate attorney for a question like this -- there are very dramatic personal injury lawyers like John Edwards that put on a show for the jury where they gasp for breath as through they are dying while asking the jury to "don't let the bum get away with this travesty"... If your regular real estate attorney (every land lord needs one...) can make a "referal" to a personal liability defense attorney I can just about guarantee that the response will come back that "even if you have all the local fences and anti-drowning intake covers you might still face expensive litigation" but a properly executed addendum that lists all the prohibited actions including defeating child-resistant fence latches / alarms / monitors ought to go a long way toward making sure you don't get some irresponsible tenants ...
Indiviuals who do are only renting a minimal number of units are exempt from Fair Housing regulations, the same is not true of real estate agents that make their living screening buyer or tenants...
I would not rely on insurance agent / company or real estate agent / broker to understand all the details of potential liability.
Thanks for the info on the minimal units escape clause, I'll research it. It is only the liability that makes me want to not rent. I'm all for any race, any age, any religion, any ethnicity, handicapped as long as I'm not required to modify my house, GLBT "couples," unmarried couples, Martians or other aliens for that matter. Maybe not illegal aliens. I frankly don't care about anything other that the renter will take care of my property and pay the rent on time.
It is the liability that is my problem. And damned right about the insurance agent, broker and Realtor. AFAIK Realtors are explicitly forbidden to offer legal advice by the NAR. And most people know how hard it is to get a real estate license. A broker just passed a harder test and has more money. NONE of them are lawyers! My insurance agent deflected my question in such a way that she didn't really answer anything.
I'll stick around and hope I get some more good advice. This is not over for me. It's just beginning.
You mentioned in another thread that you own rental houses (plural) so you probably don't get to claim exemption 1A. You're conversing with a realtor which leads me to assume the house is being rented with their assistance, which would preclude you from claiming exemption 1B.
At this point, it seems pretty clear cut that you're subject to both federal and state FHA laws and must abide by such.
Yeppers, I'm nailed. I have 4 houses, and use a Realtor. Now I have to research exactly what family status means, i.e. families with young children. Sounds like I'll lose that one. In the future I'll remember to add verbiage to listings and hope that repels them. Knowing I can't actually act on it.
Thank you for that good tidbit of info. It's looking more and more like an ugly temporary fence. And it's going to take time to install it. And they're living in a hotel right now.
ETA:
I just Googled temporary pool fences. Looks like that and putting a padlock on the big doggie door and not giving them the keys -- they have two dogs -- should be my parachute. If they defeat the protective mechanisms the liability is on them. BTW the doggie door is big enough for a small child to crawl through.
The beautiful part of this solution is that my liability is covered and they may not be interested if I do all that. And... I'm obeying the Fair Housing laws!
ETA again:
"Families with children" are one of the protected classes.
Last edited by Lovehound; 07-06-2014 at 12:00 PM..
Yeppers, I'm nailed. I have 4 houses, and use a Realtor. Now I have to research exactly what family status means, i.e. families with young children. Sounds like I'll lose that one. In the future I'll remember to add verbiage to listings and hope that repels them. Knowing I can't actually act on it.
Familial status definitely covers families with young children.
Quote:
In this article, a discriminatory act is committed because of familial status if the act is committed because the person who is the subject of discrimination is: 1. Pregnant.
2. Domiciled with an individual younger than eighteen years of age in regard to whom the person either:
(a) Is the parent or legal custodian.
(b) Has the written permission of the parent or legal custodian for domicile with that person.
3. In the process of obtaining legal custody of an individual younger than eighteen years of age.
Also, be careful about using verbiage to "repel". That is an actionable offense even if you do not plan to act on it.
Quote:
Thank you for that good tidbit of info. It's looking more and more like an ugly temporary fence. And it's going to take time to install it. And they're living in a hotel right now.
Your best bet would be, in my opinion, to consult with a law firm that can handle a wide variety of issues as you'll be dealing with asset protection and liability defenses.
Thank you for the info on "repel." It was a bad idea anyway. Actually, just putting that in the listing would probably be a violation.
Looks more and more like the fence. I guess I can leave the doggie door since it will be on the opposite side of the fence from the pool.
I'll just fence in the patio, get good pictures. Then when my photographer leaves they can store the fence in the garage and if their kid drowns it's not my liability.
It's great to have this forum and all the helpful advice from C-D members! I'm narrowing in on the correct strategy.
If you are worried about liability, you should buy an umbrella insurance policy for $2 million coverage. And add the rental home to the policy. I rented a out a pool home and made sure I had an umbrella policy as well. I think it was <$250/year.
Keep in mind there are lots of rules for new homes/new pools in various states but often existing homes/pools are grandfathered and don't have to meet the new standards. Not sure if this applies to your situation, but maybe a consultation with an attorney would give you an extra CYA. You want to make sure you are complying with any/all safety and regulation rules that apply to your property. For example, maybe a written inspection report with photos might be something for you to get and keep in your files to prove that you had necessary safety eqpt in place.
If you are worried about liability, you should buy an umbrella insurance policy for $2 million coverage.
Already went into that with my insurance agent, don't want to get into the details but end result is that I'm in a situation that I can't qualify. Don't ask.
The house is recently built. About 2000.
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