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Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,722 posts, read 58,067,115 times
Reputation: 46190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloforLife
I don't know what you mean "like that." I have attended churches in different states over the years. Small or large, the pastors always look like high maintenance people. One of the reasons I stop attending church is that I really feel that parishioners/congregations are being taken for a ride.
Might want to try a 'layman' / or home church. Berean and some Brethren even some lutheran have lay leaders.
My pastor is a Bulldozer driver, 2nd in command a professional rodeo rider. Both are seminary grads, but just your average Joe.
Plenty of choices, but agreed.... I don't do 'high maint nothing' if my $35 car needs too much work, it will get shredded, I have plenty of spare $35 cars.
Tough to judge 'needs' of others. Especially those I entrust with financial support. But... since it is not MY money, they are accountable for how THEIR money is spent, and I for mine. I sleep well, I trust they do too. One family we supported for 30 yrs bought very nice grad degrees for their kids, ours got nothing (from us). Everyone has survived and done well in spite of our 'perceptions' / thinking how they should spend the money we donated. Not my money anymore, not my problem. Our kids struggled a bit with that, since they all grew up together. A Life lesson in giving to others. +/-
Take 10% off the top then that's your 100% to live with. As tithing is tax deductible of course consult your tax professional just lump sum your refund at the end of the year. As for retirement well life in general give what you can where you so choose.
I don't know what you mean "like that." I have attended churches in different states over the years. Small or large, the pastors always look like high maintenance people. One of the reasons I stop attending church is that I really feel that parishioners/congregations are being taken for a ride.
That's what I meant by "like that". I do not have a high maintenance pastor. I would not attend a church that did.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,722 posts, read 58,067,115 times
Reputation: 46190
Tithing and charity are about as different as east from west.
Probably some confusion caused by trying to join the two in one subject.
Retirement planning will obviously include your giving (for those who do it)
Retirement MAY be 'pushed-out' for some who give a lot (far mor than 10%)
10% is 'noise' (before and after retirement). As mentioned, some of us set up 'giving in perpetuity' We did ours during our 30s, just in case we got run over by the bus (likely while living in Bangkok with small children). It was set up in a managed investment and was able to grow till retirement. Basically, parallel to an IRA, but specificallly for future gifting. Any windfalls / highly appreciated stock got sent to the 'gifting / charity fund. (Very, very low cost basis, and great deductions during earning years.
Those who give will always give, those who don't MAY change when they become retrospective on life. Some will remain as tight as a drum. That's fine.
I was a low salary earner for about 2/3s of my working life, and my contributions to charity were infrequent and small as a result. During the last third of my working life I belonged to a religious group that did definitely expect that one should give, but there was no custom of tithing. I was able by this time to afford larger contributions, but felt moved to add to this by sustained volunteering, which was never less than three or four hours a week and sometimes was equal to my job hours.
Early in my working life I could save nothing. In my middle years I attempted to save, but was wiped out twice by medical costs not covered by the insurance my employer provided. I had about $80,000 by the time of my forced early retirement in the early 90's.
In retirement, for various reasons, I became more prosperous. Everything is paid for, my personal needs take up very little of my income and I live where the cost of living is about 55 or 60 percent of what it is in the U.S. Thus, while I am physically unable to volunteer now, I am in a position to give five or six thousand a year to local charities, and to know personally who works for them and what their activities are.
Trying to come back to the OP. In my early working years -Sixties and early Seventies - I had no clear saving plan because I had such a lousy income, when after my medical disasters I started at zero again I began by doing nothing more than have a savings account, and then buy a mutual fund. Charity for most of these years had to be an after thought. When I became motivated to volunteer I felt that this was adequate giving, and I just proceeded slowly along the same savings "plan." So, saving for the future and giving to charity were not in competition.
Obviously this sounds, and is, extremely unsophisticated by the standards of the discussions in the Retirement Forum. Part of this was due to the fact that I was a very naive person when it came to finances, and I came from a social background where the things that I did when I was finally able to do them were considered intelligent and adequate. It was not until the Reagan years, and era that followed, that I realized that my parents simple vision of preparing for retirement America, which I inherited, was a fairy tale turning into folly.
But when I had to retire and had only a small amount of money I took myself out of the U.S. I was able to buy my first tiny home veeeery cheaply and then sell it at a profit...and this repeated itself several times, I was able - and use to living pretty simply - so my SS and my employer's pension plan income had enough left over to invest in a more sophisticated manner. There was also the important matter of a much lower cost of living and lower income taxes. And then by taking a chancer I converted any money I had in the U.S. into euros when it was dirt cheap, and I began having my SS and pension deposited directly here so I was buying up more cheap euros. I have had catastrophic medical problems, but medical care was excellent at a far, far lower cost than the U.S. so my private insurance covered almost 95% each time. Thus, I was for the first time in a position to grow money. I pay back as generously as I am able because I am grateful to this country and my local town for providing me with a better life than I have ever had before.
So, in my case planning for the future and balancing this with charity only became possible after retirement. And my American experience vis-a-vis the subject of this thread is probably something on the order of an artifact from times gone by.
IMO, a person needs to be able to tend to their own needs first. People who give to others before taking care of themselves are likely going to need help themselves down the line.
If people are not contributing sufficiently to retirement to take care of themselves in the future in order to take care of others now, I don't think that's a wise move.
For what it's worth, I know very few people who tithe, largely because they cannot afford to. They give what they can, but not a 10% tithe.
I agree. If someone wants to contribute money to a cause, then put them in your will, but once you get on a fixed income I think you need to take care of yourself first, because there isn't anyone else to watch out for you.
For people who want to contribute in retirement to a cause, they should do it by volunteering. This benefits the cause and yourself doing this.
and if working people read city-data and believe that regardless of how many Millions $$$$$$$ you have saved for retirement..............it is not enough......... then there never would be any money for charitable giving.
That's what wills are for. You leave your money to the charity.
I don't understand the endless debate about tithing here.
A standard set of ratios for saving, spending, income, etc., apply, and those are more restrictive when tithing.
I honestly don't see why an older, supposedly enlightened demographic is debating this virulently.
??? No one is virulently debating tithing on this thread. The OP brought it up as an impact upon retirement, and most people are merely giving their personal takes and experience. A few people see the mention of religion/charity and become compelled to march about stating how it's not for them, but that's de rigueur and to be expected on City-Data. No big deal, no endless debate.
I don't understand the endless debate about tithing here.
A standard set of ratios for saving, spending, income, etc., apply, and those are more restrictive when tithing.
I honestly don't see why an older, supposedly enlightened demographic is debating this virulently.
You've been around here long enough to know that a certain percentage of threads end up in some sort of adversarial/contentious tone. I think it odd that you think just because people are older that they are that enlightened or above an argument.
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The OP brought it up as an impact upon retirement, and most people are merely giving their personal takes and experience. A few people see the mention of religion/charity and become compelled to march about stating how it's not for them, but that's de rigueur and to be expected on City-Data. No big deal, no endless debate.
to the OP.