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Old 09-28-2022, 04:30 PM
 
Location: On the wind
1,465 posts, read 1,084,852 times
Reputation: 3577

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
They don’t by and large have corporatized health care, so that may have something to do with it. The county-run homes (usually one per county) are generally state jobs and pay better with pension, etc and have much less turnover. But they don’t have to turn a profit or make shareholders happy.
Exactly! That was the reason for my comment!
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Old 09-28-2022, 06:10 PM
 
32 posts, read 15,506 times
Reputation: 79
My ex neighbor recommended visiting the food stamps office, churches & convalescent home parking lots to recruit cheap help

A lady lives in their RV using their garage bathroom & storage.
She works M-F mornings. Hands lady off to the Bus for her to go to day program at 9am then retrieves her at the curb at 3:50pm staying a little less than 1 hr. Put in bed about 4:30pm, dinner at 6pm then given a sedative at 6:45pm to sleep all night

Church lady works Sat night 7:45pm-8:45pm & Sundays 9:15am-1:30pm taking her to church & potluck after.

He pays $110 a week to the church lady. Wife stays in bed every Saturday happy she isn't forced to go anywhere

.

Last edited by Kosh55; 09-28-2022 at 06:42 PM..
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Old 09-29-2022, 09:01 AM
 
1,397 posts, read 1,147,357 times
Reputation: 6299
There is no answer to this. People want to remain at home but can't afford or don't want to afford paying someone a living wage to do the work. Medical advancements have lengthened lifespans but to a point where many will linger in a state where they cannot transfer on their own. Once you need help transferring (toilet or bed) you need 24/7 care. Even at minimum wage that is cost prohibitive.


To say "family needs to do that as in the past!" is a very naive statement. Most women work now and have full-time jobs. Kids are in daycare. People not only live longer but they have children at older ages too. So a woman could have young children while working full time AND having an elderly parent in need. So is she expected to quit her job and take care of mom while ignoring her own family's needs?


My parents had long term care insurance and my mother lingered with dementia for several years. They hired a care service for 8 hours a day. Their regular helpers were great but there were several who stole from my parents. Care services struggle to find people and will literally take anyone off the street and "train" them to do the work. So you never know who you might get. Then, if they are good, usually they are doing the job to bide their time until they move up to something better for higher pay. Who wants to do the very dirty work of changing an elderly person's diaper for minimum wage? The care service of course had to charge my parents (at the time) $25 an hour to cover their overhead costs.



The biggest problem is reliability and trustworthiness. Yes, you can hire someone off of Craigslist but if an elderly person is alone they must have someone who is reliable.


All of this is a consequence of improving healthcare. People live longer but often in lingering states with chronic health problems.
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Old 09-29-2022, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,615 posts, read 84,857,016 times
Reputation: 115172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloradomom22 View Post
There is no answer to this. People want to remain at home but can't afford or don't want to afford paying someone a living wage to do the work. Medical advancements have lengthened lifespans but to a point where many will linger in a state where they cannot transfer on their own. Once you need help transferring (toilet or bed) you need 24/7 care. Even at minimum wage that is cost prohibitive.


To say "family needs to do that as in the past!" is a very naive statement. Most women work now and have full-time jobs. Kids are in daycare. People not only live longer but they have children at older ages too. So a woman could have young children while working full time AND having an elderly parent in need. So is she expected to quit her job and take care of mom while ignoring her own family's needs?


My parents had long term care insurance and my mother lingered with dementia for several years. They hired a care service for 8 hours a day. Their regular helpers were great but there were several who stole from my parents. Care services struggle to find people and will literally take anyone off the street and "train" them to do the work. So you never know who you might get. Then, if they are good, usually they are doing the job to bide their time until they move up to something better for higher pay. Who wants to do the very dirty work of changing an elderly person's diaper for minimum wage? The care service of course had to charge my parents (at the time) $25 an hour to cover their overhead costs.



The biggest problem is reliability and trustworthiness. Yes, you can hire someone off of Craigslist but if an elderly person is alone they must have someone who is reliable.


All of this is a consequence of improving healthcare. People live longer but often in lingering states with chronic health problems.
More common probably than the young mother with small children and an elderly parent is the elderly parent with almost-elderly children. When my mother died, we, her children, ranged in age from 51 to 70. The youngest was helping care for her, but he has a degenerating spine and could not work, which is why he was available to make her meals and do her laundry. She was still getting around with a walker most of the time, at least.

My mother was 73 when her 94-year-old mother died. My grandmother had been in the nursing home for the last two years because my mother simply could not physically care for her anymore. She was already hauling my father's wheelchair around.

The trouble with living to be very old is that your kids are old, too.
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Old 09-29-2022, 10:00 AM
 
17,401 posts, read 16,547,378 times
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There has to be a better way for such an extremely common life issue. Aging "children" can't possibly provide the round the clock care that an elderly adult needs. Yes, I know that some step up and do everything they can to help. But love, alone, is not going to make them skilled health providers. And, that is exactly what they are expected to be - health care providers.

The average person knows jack diddley squat about complex medication management, how to prevent bed sores from developing, how to insert a catheter, how to safely move an individual with mobility issues much less how to effectively deal with cognitive decline/dementia. The average home is not set up to manage that kind of care, either. There are literally 80/90 year old caregivers trying to take care of their 80/90 year old spouses because they feel that they can't afford any help. Oftentimes, the caregivers wind up dying before the ones that they are caring for do. Then what? Adult children have jobs and often have children of their own still reliant on them - it's not like they can just quit their jobs and devote themselves to helping elderly family members.

Society doesn't know how to effectively deal with a large elderly population because past generations did not tend to live so long and the demand for resources has never been so great.

We need to start thinking outside of the box on this. Does the aging Boomer population really think that the younger generations who complain about paying their own student loans or even providing for their own children are just going to magically become selfless, dutiful caregivers? I doubt that most Boomers even have that expectation when it comes to their own kids.
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Old 09-29-2022, 10:05 AM
 
7,847 posts, read 3,836,363 times
Reputation: 14814
Quote:
Originally Posted by atlguy44 View Post
What is needed is a proper training program
Old people & their families don't seem to value more highly trained workers. Old people do not seem willing to pay extra for a well-trained worker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atlguy44 View Post
one where there is good oversight and certification and accreditation that is possibly national.
That would raise the price of workers, and old people do not seem willing to pay more for certified & accredited workers.

Last edited by moguldreamer; 09-29-2022 at 10:30 AM..
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Old 09-29-2022, 10:09 AM
 
17,401 posts, read 16,547,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moguldreamer View Post
Old people & their families don't seem to value more highly trained workers. Old people are not willing to pay extra for a well-trained worker.



That would raise the price of workers, and old people are not willing to pay more for certified & accredited workers.
People who are no longer independent to the point where they require a caregiver need some sort of solution.
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Old 09-29-2022, 10:10 AM
 
7,847 posts, read 3,836,363 times
Reputation: 14814
Quote:
Originally Posted by LookinForMayberry View Post
Frankly, a big part of the problem -- of many human services -- is privatization. What used to be state-sponsored programs are not being performed by for profit companies.
What you see as the problem, I see as the solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LookinForMayberry View Post
Often times, the people just needed someone to visit with them, listen to their woes...
As long as that person is willing to personally pay for someone to listen to them, fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LookinForMayberry View Post
check to be sure they are taking their meds
As long as that person is willing to personally pay for someone to check that they are taking their meds, fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LookinForMayberry View Post
and change their linens.
As long as that person is willing to personally pay for someone to change their linens, fine.
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Old 09-29-2022, 10:12 AM
 
7,847 posts, read 3,836,363 times
Reputation: 14814
Quote:
Originally Posted by atlguy44 View Post
They are not really developed to the point at which the workforce is developed enough to become a bargaining unit with sufficient leverage to demand better pay and working conditions! That's the point I'm making.
How much extra would the customer be willing to pay for a unionized workforce? The "demand better pay" has to be funded by the end customer, after all. Do you think an 85 year old would be willing to pay 5% more? 10% more? How much?
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Old 09-29-2022, 10:21 AM
 
17,401 posts, read 16,547,378 times
Reputation: 29090
Quote:
Originally Posted by moguldreamer View Post
What you see as the problem, I see as the solution.



As long as that person is willing to personally pay for someone to listen to them, fine.



As long as that person is willing to personally pay for someone to check that they are taking their meds, fine.



As long as that person is willing to personally pay for someone to change their linens, fine.
Elderly people with dementia don't even know what they need half of the time. They are not going to be able to hire and negotiate proper care for their needs. So, then what?
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