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I suppose that if I had to make that decision about my own parents or some other very close loved one, I would ask myself "Is he/she getting any enjoyment out of life in their present condition (even if they may be confused), and is it likely that they will improve any in their remaining weeks or months?"
If the answer to both questions is "No", then I would agree to a third party (medical person) ending their hopeless existence upon my directive to do so. Unfortunately, that option wasn't available to me or my siblings when Mom and Dad lingered and suffered in their final days/weeks.
I have already discussed such matters with my wife and have told her that I do not wish to linger hopelessly, and she has told me that she feels the same way. Whether either of us will get to make such a decision if/when that day comes remains to be seen. The laws, being as they are, would likely impose a very stiff sentence if either of us were to help the other end their hopeless suffering.
I suppose that if I had to make that decision about my own parents or some other very close loved one, I would ask myself "Is he/she getting any enjoyment out of life in their present condition (even if they may be confused), and is it likely that they will improve any in their remaining weeks or months?"
If the answer to both questions is "No", then I would agree to a third party (medical person) ending their hopeless existence upon my directive to do so. Unfortunately, that option wasn't available to me or my siblings when Mom and Dad lingered and suffered in their final days/weeks.
I have already discussed such matters with my wife and have told her that I do not wish to linger hopelessly, and she has told me that she feels the same way. Whether either of us will get to make such a decision if/when that day comes remains to be seen. The laws, being as they are, would likely impose a very stiff sentence if either of us were to help the other end their hopeless suffering.
That exactly is the tragedy here. I am all for safeguards but not at all for government standing in the way of people's own control and wish about their life.
This isn't about euthanasia, though, it's about people choosing to die, not other people choosing for them to die. That somehow always gets confused in these conversations about medically-assisted death.
What you expressed in the bolded IS murder.
I was still talking about PAS, but done with written request of the patient prior (most likely several years prior) to severe dementia. But at the physical and mental state these folks are in, someone else would have to insert the needle, and determine the substance to do the job. I got a bit colorful with the needle imagery, sorry.
I think in some ways of my beloved pets, (and I'm not comparing a human to a dog BUT), if they are in intractable pain (physical or mental) with no hope for anything better, it seems an act of mercy to relieve them of it. But if someone is like my sweet little lady, she is in no pain, just really no dignity and no hope for anything but further decline, it seems unnecessary. It's really the luck of the draw which sort of decline any individual might have and who's to say a person whose dementia takes an angry belligerent turn's life is better ended? I think these are moral dilemmas that must be solved before it can be legalized here. And I wonder if it were my friend or family member, and I knew their prior wishes and it were legal, could I do it if they were like my sweet lady? Even if I knew it was their heartfelt wish?
Last edited by TheShadow; 10-24-2023 at 04:00 PM..
I suppose that if I had to make that decision about my own parents or some other very close loved one, I would ask myself "Is he/she getting any enjoyment out of life in their present condition (even if they may be confused), and is it likely that they will improve any in their remaining weeks or months?"
If the answer to both questions is "No", then I would agree to a third party (medical person) ending their hopeless existence upon my directive to do so. Unfortunately, that option wasn't available to me or my siblings when Mom and Dad lingered and suffered in their final days/weeks.
I have already discussed such matters with my wife and have told her that I do not wish to linger hopelessly, and she has told me that she feels the same way. Whether either of us will get to make such a decision if/when that day comes remains to be seen. The laws, being as they are, would likely impose a very stiff sentence if either of us were to help the other end their hopeless suffering.
The bottom line is that such a decision can never be made on behalf of that other person. That is why it is so important to have your wishes in writing so (hopefully) they can be adhered to if you become so impaired that you can no longer make your own decisions.
My grandmother and grandfather died back in July. There was no will. There were no medical directives. Decisions had to be made, and who knows if the decisions that were made were in accordance with what they would have wanted before they became demented.
One uncle had medical POA over my grandfather. Grandfather had congestive heart failure, and would regularly need to have fluid drained off. The uncle said "no more hospital trips," and grandfather died shortly thereafter. My mom and dad have basically written my uncle off over this. My dad and uncle were previously closed, but after he "killed my grandfather," dad doesn't want anything to do with him.
The bottom line is that such a decision can never be made on behalf of that other person. That is why it is so important to have your wishes in writing so (hopefully) they can be adhered to if you become so impaired that you can no longer make your own decisions.
Great posts S, Conversation! I think you were born an old soul.
It would appear that we should all write caveats to our medical directives.
Something along the lines of this might suffice: "No matter how adorable I look, how much I appear to enjoy myself and how easy I am to care for as I sit diaper bound in a wheelchair clutching a teddy bear in LaLa Land, please respect my wishes and OFF ME."
As it stands now in the U.S. most of this is just a moot point. Seems like in order to get medically assisted suicide, we all have to plan a trip to Switzerland.
ETA:
A gentleman with dementia traveled to Switzerland from the UK and they respected his wishes.
Do you have additional detail on that? I did no think that Switzerland allowed that...
Sorry, I don't have the link. Amy Bloom's husband went to Switzerland and he was diagnosed with dementia/Alzheimers. I beleive as long as you can drink the cocktail unaided you are good to go.
Sorry, I don't have the link. Amy Bloom's husband went to Switzerland and he was diagnosed with dementia/Alzheimers. I beleive as long as you can drink the cocktail unaided you are good to go.
Actually, it is not as straightforward solution in case of dementia. Amy Bloom's husband was proactive and likely addressed it before the full onset of dementia. Furthermore, the rules have recently been tightened further to make it more difficult.
Great posts S, Conversation! I think you were born an old soul.
It would appear that we should all write caveats to our medical directives.
Something along the lines of this might suffice: "No matter how adorable I look, how much I appear to enjoy myself and how easy I am to care for as I sit diaper bound in a wheelchair clutching a teddy bear in LaLa Land, please respect my wishes and OFF ME."
As it stands now in the U.S. most of this is just a moot point. Seems like in order to get medically assisted suicide, we all have to plan a trip to Switzerland.
ETA:
A gentleman with dementia traveled to Switzerland from the UK and they respected his wishes.
It's hard to determine a cutoff for the level of impairment between "let me live" and "pull the plug." What I might view one way, you might view the other way.
In my family's case, even if the grandparents wanted no efforts made after a certain point, I think the daughters' religious beliefs and closeness to their parents would have made them take every effort to keep their parents alive, even against their own wishes.
It's hard to determine a cutoff for the level of impairment between "let me live" and "pull the plug." What I might view one way, you might view the other way.
In my family's case, even if the grandparents wanted no efforts made after a certain point, I think the daughters' religious beliefs and closeness to their parents would have made them take every effort to keep their parents alive, even against their own wishes.
That's rather unfortunate and sad, IMO, that one person's wishes about their own life, and when it should end, is overruled by someone else who has a different point of view. The fact that it's a close relative and that the relative is "religious" should have nothing to do with it.
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