Dementia suicide ethics - discussion from the NYT (relocate, states, relatives)
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I'd really like to read this article if anyone finds a non-paywall version of it I hope they'll post a link.
I can not find a non-paywall version link but I think it is OK with the moderators to quote the NYT Ethicist's sensible advice below
Quote:
The fact remains that countless people lead lives of value while experiencing some noticeable measure of cognitive decline. They’re able to give and receive love, even joy. And it’s impossible to predict when deficits will cross into outright dementia, if this is what’s in store; there can be extended periods of stability. Advance care planning, prepared while your husband is legally competent, can give him at least some control over his medical future. In the meantime, I’d urge him to consider that his current impairment doesn’t mean his existence offers nothing of value, to him and to those who care about him.
The irony of my current situation with my friend is that I volunteer weekly at a day care center for adults with dementia. I see every week the varying levels of function that these folks have. They are all in need of full-time monitoring, and so can't be left alone at home, so their families have opted to enroll them in our center. Some still have the basic mental functioning to be on their own, but lack some of the physical ability, while others really don't have the capacity to care for themselves at all and would be wandering the streets mumbling incoherently if left alone. I think it's all just really messing with my head and heart as I wait for her diagnosis and what it means for her future.
I think I'm just too close to it now to make any sort of statement on the ethics of assisted euthanasia.
Last edited by TheShadow; 10-08-2023 at 10:54 AM..
The few people that I knew with dementia were horribly miserable once it got bad. They couldn’t sleep and would pace continuously, were afraid to shower and would fight, had to be fed and wear diapers, were paranoid and afraid because they didn’t know who anyone was. Definitely a life in hell. Death is definitely a blessing at this point.
I worked in a locked psychiatric dementia unit when working. End state dementia is as Teacher Terry describes, at least that which I saw was dreadful. No such thing as "pleasantly confused." I would never want to get anywhere near that way for myself.
I saw a video put out by one of those "urban explorers" who find abandoned properties that still have furniture and belongings inside. In this one particular video, the property was an abandoned cabin out in a remote area - one long winding road leading to and from it. Inside, the cabin had been left untouched with a calendar on the wall and some expired cans of food that were dated a ways back. It was clear that no one had lived in the cabin for at least 3 years.
There were lots of books, a well stocked whiskey cabinet, games, knitting, a record player with old albums, family pictures hung on the wall in every room. You could just see someone sitting in the overstuffed chair in front of the fireplace, reading a book while they were sipping on a hot toddy as the snow fell quietly outside. It was very cozy.
Turns out, an older couple had lived out their remaining years in that well stocked little cabin. There was some evidence that they had passed away and may not have been discovered for awhile, The urban explorer kept saying how sad it was that the couple's family did not appear to visit them regularly and seemed to have no interest in any of the items they had left behind. But the cabin was remote and it is clear that the couple chose to live out there away from their family members, away from hospitals, away from conveniences. There they stayed until they were called home.
I just thought that was an interesting approach that they took.
Last edited by springfieldva; 10-08-2023 at 12:37 PM..
I worked in a locked psychiatric dementia unit when working. End state dementia is as Teacher Terry describes, at least that which I saw was dreadful. No such thing as "pleasantly confused." I would never want to get anywhere near that way for myself.
I have a friend whose mother is sinking further into dementia, and it's so hard on her. Her mother was this sweet, very religious Catholic woman, and last month when my friend was taking her turn staying with her, her mother started screaming at some workmen out in the road to get out of there. Then she picked up a metal stapler and started hitting the window, continuing to yell at them. My friend feared her mom would break the window, so she took the stapler away, and her mother turned and screamed "You B****!" at her daughter, whom she does not remember is her daughter. My friend was shaken by it.
Shortly after, the mother had a physical problem which required her to go to some sort of a nursing home for rehabilitation, but it doesn't look good--she can't even sit up straight anymore--and I'm hoping for my friend's sake that she and her siblings decide Mom can't go back home. They have been taking turns staying with her to keep her in the home she's lived in most of her life, but half the time she demands to "go home", not remembering that she IS home. They were putting her in the car and driving her around the block, then she would recognize the front of her house, and they would bring her back in.
They did not see any signs of dementia until after she had surgery a couple of years ago. She was never right again after the amnesia, believing she had been kidnapped and was being held somewhere against her will, not in a hospital.
I have a friend whose mother is sinking further into dementia, ...
They did not see any signs of dementia until after she had surgery a couple of years ago. She was never right again after the amnesia, believing she had been kidnapped and was being held somewhere against her will, not in a hospital.
Anecdotally, I would say that often dementia is apparent or worsens after anesthesia for surgery.
Anecdotally, I would say that often dementia is apparent or worsens after anesthesia for surgery.
I have heard that. My mother had an episode the day after her quad bypass where she insisted that she had an abscess under her ribs (it was where tubes had been left for drainage after the surgery) and she kept asking the nurses to lance it. They told her it was the tubes, and she looked at them sternly and said, "You are very nice, and I know you have a lot of education, but I know what an abscess is, and I am telling you it needs to be lanced!"
I left the room for some reason for a little while, and when I came back, she said, "No one would help me, so I took care of it myself. I lanced the abscess, and green liquid shot out all over the place."
Of course, this never happened, and at the end of the day the tubes were removed. She never mentioned it again. I don't know if she even remembered any of this, but after that she was fine. She lived another four and a half years and was clear-minded up to her death. But I was worried for a day or so.
I worked in a locked psychiatric dementia unit when working. End state dementia is as Teacher Terry describes, at least that which I saw was dreadful. No such thing as "pleasantly confused." I would never want to get anywhere near that way for myself.
Thanks for sharing the truth. People who haven’t spent years in the trenches with this disease have unrealistic expectations of what it’s like. When my friend’s husband died I was her guardian and had to place her in a home. I visited often and got to know many of the other residents. During the 18 months she was there I saw the decline of other residents.
TV shows and movies often show a romanticized view of the disease which is unrealistic. People lose all their filters so swear, take off all their clothes in public, fight and often end up mean. It’s painful beyond belief for your loved one not to recognize you, yell and scream at you and thinking that you’re trying to harm them.
You end up grieving over and over before they die. When my friend’s cancer came back I didn’t treat it and was relieved when she died which is how I felt when my dad died. Then you get to feel guilty that you are relieved. Good times for all ((: Like most people I hope to avoid this kind of hell.
My dad died 30 years ago and the experience will be with me forever. He suffered for 14 long years. He didn’t have dementia but a massive stroke that caused brain damage which worsened continuously over the 14 years. Very similar to dementia.
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