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It's easy to say suicide assisted or not is wrong, but those who are against it...well, are they willing to provide the resources 24/7 so the ill person can live in dignity?
What resources would allow an incontinent, combative person who no longer recognizes his family to live in dignity?
I found that story comforting. I believe that if it were me, I'd try to take myself out during those brief moments of lucidity that occur even in those who are fairly far along the path of dementia, but prior to the angry, violent, or catatonic -like states. Once I realized that time was approaching, like the women in the story, I'd prepare all my paperwork for my survivors, obtain the means to handle the job, and have those things at the ready for the day I realized it was enough, and it was time to go.
In the case of my older relatives who've passed after their health declined, we all knew the time was approaching and that release from the prison of a painful body/mind was the best any of us could wish for at that point. Once you know it's all downhill, and really all the good in your life has passed, and all that remains is misery, release is what we'd wish for. My grieving for my own mom and MIL were both eased by the knowledge that this was for the best in the end. I grieved my loss, but not because I felt they were short-changed. They were ready to go and that's what mattered.
Last edited by TheShadow; 10-09-2023 at 08:31 AM..
What resources would allow an incontinent, combative person who no longer recognizes his family to live in dignity?
My dad had dementia and the answer is that there is no way to preserve their dignity. You can keep them "safe", nourished, clean. But by the time they are in the locked unit of a dementia ward they have zero quality of life left. They are no longer the same person.
If I find myself slipping away, I can see going out to a remote, well stocked cabin and living out the remainder of my life among my familiar things, surrounded by nature. Would I last as long in that setting as I would in a nursing home? Maybe not. But that's o.k. Quality not quantity.
I worked in a locked psychiatric dementia unit when working. End state dementia is as Teacher Terry describes, at least that which I saw was dreadful. No such thing as "pleasantly confused." I would never want to get anywhere near that way for myself.
How come they did not get that under control pharmacologically? There is now a drug geared towards control of agitation in Alzheimer's (I don't know the name off hand, it's a piperazine-type drug) which may not have been available when you worked there, but risperidine has been around for quite a long time, and Haldol even longer.
How come they did not get that under control pharmacologically? There is now a drug geared towards control of agitation in Alzheimer's (I don't know the name off hand, it's a piperazine-type drug) which may not have been available when you worked there, but risperidine has been around for quite a long time, and Haldol even longer.
The antipsychotics have often paradoxical effects on dementia patients. They were in the psych hospital largely because they flunked out of nursing homes and what medications were available. Also, there are different causes of dementia than Alzheimer's (vascular, Lewy body) and people cannot always or ever often be treated successfully for the alarming signs and symptoms.
There were and are no good answers. I recently talked with my former coworker who was charge of that unit (and the hospital was #1 in U.S. News and World Report) famous for its research. There are no good answers.
How come they did not get that under control pharmacologically?
Yes, so the big drug companies can rake in even more cash until the final end? Just so grandma can sit around in a catatonic state in a pile of her own filth?
It's been stated many times before, but we don't subject such horrific living conditions to animals, so why do we do it to fellow humans?
The antipsychotics have often paradoxical effects on dementia patients. They were in the psych hospital largely because they flunked out of nursing homes and what medications were available. Also, there are different causes of dementia than Alzheimer's (vascular, Lewy body) and people cannot always or ever often be treated successfully for the alarming signs and symptoms.
There were and are no good answers. I recently talked with my former coworker who was charge of that unit (and the hospital was #1 in U.S. News and World Report) famous for its research. There are no good answers.
Hmm interesting. Yes, of course I know there are different types of dementia with very different mechanisms of loss of cognitive function. Well, I was in an area of medicine far from psychiatry, but in my world any agitation could be controlled in anybody, including in all demented people, with IV drugs. But I recognize that is not feasible long-term.
Hmm interesting. Yes, of course I know there are different types of dementia with very different mechanisms of loss of cognitive function. Well, I was in an area of medicine far from psychiatry, but in my world any agitation could be controlled in anybody, including in all demented people, with IV drugs. But I recognize that is not feasible long-term.
I lost my dad over 20 years ago but I remember how medications would sometimes work and then out of the blue stop working like he was taking nothing at all. The doctor would come by the nursing home, switch him onto something else which sometimes helped and sometimes the new meds created more bizarre behavior.
Every time I walked into visit him, there was usually a patient trying to slip out of the locked door and there were always patients wandering around the hall doing bizarre things. Screaming, moaning, combativeness. Once a sweet wife made a pretty fall wreath to hang on her husband's door - just to cheer things up a bit for him. They had to take it down when he started to eat the fake fruit off of it.
The worst thing is when they have moments of lucidity and actually seem, for at least a few moments, to realize where they are.
The antipsychotics have often paradoxical effects on dementia patients. They were in the psych hospital largely because they flunked out of nursing homes and what medications were available. Also, there are different causes of dementia than Alzheimer's (vascular, Lewy body) and people cannot always or ever often be treated successfully for the alarming signs and symptoms.
There were and are no good answers. I recently talked with my former coworker who was charge of that unit (and the hospital was #1 in U.S. News and World Report) famous for its research. There are no good answers.
My sister, her spouse & I took our father to the ER after he knocked me out & took off naked down the street. The ER gave him a big dose of haldol, then the discharge coordinator at the hospital set in motion the plan for him to enter a skilled nursing facility, where he was kept sedated & lived that way for 5 years, until he died from sepsis due to decubitus (bed sores).
This happened to my family a few years back, but I really don’t think it has changed much. It’s probably what will happen to Bruce Willis, with the difference being that his wealth will give him better access to quality caregivers, probably in-home rather than institutional.
My sister, her spouse & I took our father to the ER after he knocked me out & took off naked down the street. The ER gave him a big dose of haldol, then the discharge coordinator at the hospital set in motion the plan for him to enter a skilled nursing facility, where he was kept sedated & lived that way for 5 years, until he died from sepsis due to decubitus (bed sores).
This happened to my family a few years back, but I really don’t think it has changed much. It’s probably what will happen to Bruce Willis, with the difference being that his wealth will give him better access to quality caregivers, probably in-home rather than institutional.
How could anyone say that this man was better off being kept alive than being allowed to die in a painless way is beyond my understanding. This is absolutely shameful that this kind of thing is permitted.
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