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In many nations, cultures, households have multiple generations under one roof. I’m not a historian, but I would guess that our culture also practiced this norm conventionally many years ago. There may be numerous and profound benefits for all involved. I think our culture has changed to the point that we collectively no longer value this practice.
It is also not always possible, of course, as some have explained above. I think, however, that an attached in-law or grandparent apartment seems like a great option, again, if possible.
I'd like to remind you of what was one of your brilliant solutions :
Falsely accusing homeless seniors of seeking meth and fentanyl...Yes, you actually said that. Has it occurred to you that there may be obstacles for homeless seniors (physical and mental limitations) in their effort to find roommates?
Yes, of course I said that, and stand behind it. Stroll down Market St in San Francisco on any average day (if you dare), and you will find more than enough support for my statement - about the junior homeless, senior homeless, and the homeless in between.
Yes, addiction causes major physical and mental limitations, no question about it. Being that I am a boomer myself, I know that addiction has been a major (possibly the major) cause of homelessness among my generation since the 1970s. Why would that cause of homelessness suddenly change as my generation enters the senior age? If someone was a homeless addict at the age of 35, why is it so unexpected (provided that he survives to senior age) that he would be a homeless addict at 65?
You are describing to a "t" what happens as the Industrial Age transitions to the Information Age. People train for jobs that no longer exist. The career tools that vocational counselors still use to assist students in choosing a career were developed decades ago. They don't even have careers such as website developer, etc.
Outsourcing along with the union busting has resulted in a lot of people struggling to keep their financial heads above water.
There's a scene in West Wing series where union members confront Josh about what are they supposed to do now that the WH has made a deal that will eliminate their jobs. He promises retraining support. They point out that they've retrained for new career paths several times now. What's to prevent these new jobs from disappearing as well?
There are people still waiting for those good paying, union coal mining jobs to reappear.
In many nations, cultures, households have multiple generations under one roof. I’m not a historian, but I would guess that our culture also practiced this norm conventionally many years ago. There may be numerous and profound benefits for all involved. I think our culture has changed to the point that we collectively no longer value this practice.
It is also not always possible, of course, as some have explained above. I think, however, that an attached in-law or grandparent apartment seems like a great option, again, if possible.
Obviously, yes, but the families that have capacity to add an ADU to their property generally don't let grandma become homeless in the first place. I agree that an ADU is an excellent solution for property-owning families, but homeless seniors typically don't come from such families.
I grew up in an "economically disadvantaged" country, in a condo that had 2 bedrooms, a living room, one bathroom, and a kitchen with a tiny side room that could be used as a storage room. My grandparents lived in one bedroom, my parents in another, and I slept in the living room. There were no problems with that arrangement, but all of my folks were quiet and considerate, and kept to their own space.
When I was between the first and second grade, my grandfather died, my brother was born about a month later, I moved to grandma's room partly vacated by grandpa's death, and my brother slept in the crib in my parents' room. About a year later, my parents remodeled the kitchen and a small storage alcove next to it, such that the former kitchen became the 3rd bedroom, and the former storage alcove became a small kitchen. It was presumably the room for me, but I preferred to hang out with grandma in her room, and she seemed to enjoy my presence too. My brother around the age of 1 moved from the crib to sleep in the living room because it was next to the parents' room, yet not in their room.
My grandma died when I was 13, and I inherited the room I had shared with her. My brother coincidentally started school, and moved from the living room to sleep in the 3rd bedroom created by remodeling the kitchen. I lived at home when I was a university student; that was normal in my home country, and no other solution would have been affordable anyway.
Except that the programs have not been "expanding and expanding and expanding."
Incorrect. The data are clear and incontrovertible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
And no I don't give a hot damn what the stats say about how much money is spent...
Yes, you've made it clear you do not find data to be useful, as you care about how you feel (frustrated) rather than what the actual data says. Yes, you're frustrated. Everyone gets frustrated sometimes, but when it becomes a constant condition it may be appropriate to talk to your doctor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
I want to know how much benefit reaches its end destinations of helping people, that's the math that counts.
It is clear that when, say, $1 Billion is allocated to address a problem, most all of that $1 Billion ends up in the paychecks, gold-plated pensions & Cadillac health insurance of government employees & contractors hired to study the problem. They create PowerPoint slide decks that they present to one another. They write massive reports. And invariably, the solutions they propose are for - surprise, surprise - greater funding, which, if granted, is used to hire more employees and contractors to coordinate activities by - surprise, surprise - creating PowerPoint slide decks and massive PDF reports.
That is why the government has proven itself impotent to have any meaningful impact on the homeless issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
They have been getting cut deeply
That's your feelings & frustration talking. The actual data show otherwise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
from the perspective of those in need, since Reagan turbo charged Movement Conservatism, with his "Welfare Queens" BS. I was around, I remember.
No need to make this political.
And Welfare fraud was - and is - rampant, despite your incorrect memory.
Linda Taylor was among the most famous of Welfare Queens; she committed extensive welfare fraud. She was a crook, fleecing taxpayers at every turn, receiving welfare payments under many pseudonyms, buying expensive jewelry and furs, committing insurance fraud, etc. Black Americans of that era and of subsequent eras took offense at the term "Welfare Queen" as being racially insensitive and being a racial slur. The funny thing is that Linda Taylor was a lilly-white Caucasian.
According to the Government Accountability Office (GAO), for fiscal year 2022, 18 federal agencies reported an estimated $247 billion in fraudulent payments across 82 separate welfare programs. We see it documented all the time - people purchasing food with SNAP EBT cards (food stamps), then loading their groceries into their Escalades with 22" spinner rims. Every. Single. Day.
OOOPS -- there I go again using actual data. While data won't help your feelings of frustration, the rest of us find it useful to see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
The programs have never been designed or run in a way that optimizes efficiency and accountability, though.
Of course not - and that is not a mistake, that is by design. We're talking government politicians and government employees whose agenda is perpetual employment rather than solving the issue of the homeless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
But that never had to be "stop the government putting any resources into the needs of low income or even regular Americans, and just fund the military if anything, maybe throw some trillions at the big corporations and let them run everything."
That's your feelings of frustration talking again. No one has ever proposed that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
To the point, Republicans only actually do "small federal government" things when it's Democrat priorities they are trying to demolish. When it's their turn to get their wish list items, they'll run us many trillions into the hole quite happily.
Yes, your hatred of Republicans comes through in most every post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
But there really isn't much point to discussing this with you, given your username makes your position pretty clear.
As to my user name, your personal frustration and prejudice once again clouds your vision. Let me help you a bit regarding my choice of screen name:
For the life of me, I can't figure out why you hate winter sports.
I've already got one. He's only fifty-four, but still. I don't know what the solution is, either, except for me to sell my home and move far away.
As I mentioned in my too long-winded post here, I learned early on from a favorite mathematics professor that some problems have no solution, and it is important to be able to recognize the types of problems you cannot solve as well as the types of problems you can solve. Being able to distinguish one class from the other is one key to competence. "The penalty for incompetence is eternal calculation," he used to say, and he drilled that into us with every mid-term & final examination.
Incorrect. The data are clear and incontrovertible.
Yes, you've made it clear you do not find data to be useful, as you care about how you feel (frustrated) rather than what the actual data says. Yes, you're frustrated. Everyone gets frustrated sometimes, but when it becomes a constant condition it may be appropriate to talk to your doctor.
It is clear that when, say, $1 Billion is allocated to address a problem, most all of that $1 Billion ends up in the paychecks, gold-plated pensions & Cadillac health insurance of government employees & contractors hired to study the problem. They create PowerPoint slide decks that they present to one another. They write massive reports. And invariably, the solutions they propose are for - surprise, surprise - greater funding, which, if granted, is used to hire more employees and contractors to coordinate activities by - surprise, surprise - creating PowerPoint slide decks and massive PDF reports.
That is why the government has proven itself impotent to have any meaningful impact on the homeless issue.
That's your feelings & frustration talking. The actual data show otherwise.
No need to make this political.
And Welfare fraud was - and is - rampant, despite your incorrect memory.
Linda Taylor was among the most famous of Welfare Queens; she committed extensive welfare fraud. She was a crook, fleecing taxpayers at every turn, receiving welfare payments under many pseudonyms, buying expensive jewelry and furs, committing insurance fraud, etc. Black Americans of that era and of subsequent eras took offense at the term "Welfare Queen" as being racially insensitive and being a racial slur. The funny thing is that Linda Taylor was a lilly-white Caucasian.
According to the Government Accountability Office (GAO), for fiscal year 2022, 18 federal agencies reported an estimated $247 billion in fraudulent payments across 82 separate welfare programs. We see it documented all the time - people purchasing food with SNAP EBT cards (food stamps), then loading their groceries into their Escalades with 22" spinner rims. Every. Single. Day.
OOOPS -- there I go again using actual data. While data won't help your feelings of frustration, the rest of us find it useful to see.
Of course not - and that is not a mistake, that is by design. We're talking government politicians and government employees whose agenda is perpetual employment rather than solving the issue of the homeless.
That's your feelings of frustration talking again. No one has ever proposed that.
Yes, your hatred of Republicans comes through in most every post.
As to my user name, your personal hatred and prejudice once again clouds your vision. You're paying attention to your feelings rather than to data in my posts. Let me help you a bit regarding my choice of screen name:
For the life of me, I can't figure out why you hate winter sports.
Yes, all of that! Exactly that! And thumbs up for your pursuit of winter sports!
Btw, I am a swing voter, I tend to agree with centrists in either party, and have voted both ways in the past. I would have voted for Yang had he been the Dem finalist (Yang's comment: I can't believe I lost to THESE guys! :-), but the way it played out in the end, I didn't vote for anyone :-). I think homelessness, including senior homelessness, as well as the future of soc security, are bipartisan issues - only extremists on both sides (but particularly and predominantly the Far Left that has somehow attached itself to the Democratic party like a barnacle) are exploiting these issues with empty posturing for political gain, without creating any effective solutions.
The career tools that vocational counselors still use to assist students in choosing a career were developed decades ago. They don't even have careers such as website developer, etc.
The vocational counselors to which you refer are government employees or contractors. <mic drop>.
It was 125 years ago in 1898: That was when the first international urban-planning conference convened in New York City. One of its goals was to figure out what to do about the problem of urban horse manure.
Nineteenth-century cities depended on thousands of horses for their daily functioning. All transport, whether of goods or people, was drawn by horses. Tens of thousands of buses were drawn by horses. Thousands of buses at the time each required a team of 12 horses per day. There were countless carts, drays, and wagons, all working constantly to deliver the goods needed by the rapidly growing population of what was among the largest cities in the world.
The problem of course was that all these horses produced huge amounts of manure. A horse will on average produce between 15 and 35 pounds of manure per day... In New York in 1900, the population of 100,000 horses produced 2.5 million pounds of horse manure per day, all of which had to be swept up and disposed of by yet more horse-drawn carts.
The problem did indeed seem intractable. The larger and richer that cities became, the more horses they needed to function. The more horses, the more manure. Futurists of that era estimated that in 50 years every street in London would be buried under nine feet of manure. Moreover, all these horses had to be stabled, which used up ever-larger areas of increasingly valuable land. And as the number of horses grew, ever-more land had to be devoted to producing hay to feed them (rather than producing food for people), and this had to be brought into cities and distributed—by horse-drawn vehicles.
It seemed that urban civilization was doomed.
That first urban-planning conference I mentioned above that convened in New York City? It was abandoned after three days, instead of the scheduled ten, because none of the delegates could see any solution to the growing crisis posed by urban horses and their manure output.
New York City of 1900 had an estimated population of over 3.4 million souls.
I've forgotten the number, but once upon a time I had statistical estimates for the number of human beings in New York City whose sole job was to sweep manure off the streets, take it to collection points, load it onto horse-drawn trucks that would transport the manure elsewhere. My recollection is nearly a hundred thousand men.
But a funny thing happened: automobiles. By 2020, motorized vehicles replaced much of the horse-drawn carts.
But what happened to the hundred thousand manure collectors who lost their jobs because of the displacement of horses by automobiles? Did they sit in government-run obsolete vocational training classes in order to learn new skills? No. They moved on.
Almost anyone who wishes to add human capital to their personal portfolio can do so.
Obviously, yes, but the families that have capacity to add an ADU to their property generally don't let grandma become homeless in the first place. I agree that an ADU is an excellent solution for property-owning families, but homeless seniors typically don't come from such families.
I grew up in an "economically disadvantaged" country, in a condo that had 2 bedrooms, a living room, one bathroom, and a kitchen with a tiny side room that could be used as a storage room. My grandparents lived in one bedroom, my parents in another, and I slept in the living room. There were no problems with that arrangement, but all of my folks were quiet and considerate, and kept to their own space.
When I was between the first and second grade, my grandfather died, my brother was born about a month later, I moved to grandma's room partly vacated by grandpa's death, and my brother slept in the crib in my parents' room. About a year later, my parents remodeled the kitchen and a small storage alcove next to it, such that the former kitchen became the 3rd bedroom, and the former storage alcove became a small kitchen. It was presumably the room for me, but I preferred to hang out with grandma in her room, and she seemed to enjoy my presence too. My brother around the age of 1 moved from the crib to sleep in the living room because it was next to the parents' room, yet not in their room.
My grandma died when I was 13, and I inherited the room I had shared with her. My brother coincidentally started school, and moved from the living room to sleep in the 3rd bedroom created by remodeling the kitchen. I lived at home when I was a university student; that was normal in my home country, and no other solution would have been affordable anyway.
And you walked five miles to school and shared the only pair of shoes with yourself. Please, just about very other member on CD has had some rough spots. What have you done to support your family, your former neighbors and friends?
Yugoslavia may not have been the center of the universe and an unnatural constellation like so many but it was a great place. Most of my memories are fond ones.
Yes, of course I said that, and stand behind it. Stroll down Market St in San Francisco on any average day (if you dare), and you will find more than enough support for my statement - about the junior homeless, senior homeless, and the homeless in between.
Yes, addiction causes major physical and mental limitations, no question about it. Being that I am a boomer myself, I know that addiction has been a major (possibly the major) cause of homelessness among my generation since the 1970s. Why would that cause of homelessness suddenly change as my generation enters the senior age? If someone was a homeless addict at the age of 35, why is it so unexpected (provided that he survives to senior age) that he would be a homeless addict at 65?
I can't access that site...I'm in a different country and I don't have a subscription to the nytimes.
Could you please provide the gist of it...how does a HOMELESS 65yr old afford to buy meth and fentanyl - as you assert?
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