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I love your logic! Seriously. I think it is difficult for most people to feel sorry for anyone who has a NET yearly income for personal expenditures of over a million dollars, no matter how much they pay in taxes.
It is not about sympathy.
It is about incentives to take risks resulting in the creation of great companies that drive GDP upward, GDP per capita upwards, GDP per capita PPP upwards, and the standard of living of everyone upwards.
It is about removing disincentives that inhibit the above.
When taxing the rich, you have to remember that them paying their taxes is like them paying their fines: a couple of hundred thousand compared to all the money they have coming in is simply the cost of doing business for them. It's like you having to pay a quarter if you get a speeding ticket.
It's important to understand that what you pay in taxes isn't as important as what you have after you pay taxes.
If I have an income of 60,000 and my tax rate is 20%, then I pay $12,000 and what I have left to live on is $48,000.
Jeff Bezos has $181,300,000,000 and he pays a 50% tax, he has $90,650,000,000 left to live on.
Seriously, do you think he's going to hurt if he has to pay a little more in taxes?
Doesn't anyone understand this? This is where our federal programs go - THIS is why we don't have money for Social Security: The US government is estimated to have lost around 135 billion in revenue due to corporate tax avoidance in 2017.
I'm sorry ma'am, but your peni$ envy is showing. For starters, $181k is Bezos' net worth, not his income. We tax income, not net worth. Secondly, Bezos/Musk/Gates/Zurkerberg/et al developed ideas that impact the life of virtually every living person. Get back to us when you have done something similar.
And if your income is 60k, you need to pay way more in taxes that you are currently paying, so that I can pay less or none.
ETA - Tax avoidance is perfectly legal, and is not tax evasion, which is not. Do you itemize your tax deductions or take the "standard deduction"? Both are forms of tax avoidance. Tsk, tsk. And as final comment, Warren Buffett has given away over $50 billion in the past few years. You?
Last edited by Buckeye77; 12-20-2023 at 08:45 AM..
When taxing the rich, you have to remember that them paying their taxes is like them paying their fines: a couple of hundred thousand compared to all the money they have coming in is simply the cost of doing business for them. It's like you having to pay a quarter if you get a speeding ticket.
It's important to understand that what you pay in taxes isn't as important as what you have after you pay taxes.
If I have an income of 60,000 and my tax rate is 20%, then I pay $12,000 and what I have left to live on is $48,000.
Jeff Bezos has $181,300,000,000 and he pays a 50% tax, he has $90,650,000,000 left to live on.
Seriously, do you think he's going to hurt if he has to pay a little more in taxes?
Doesn't anyone understand this? This is where our federal programs go - THIS is why we don't have money for Social Security: The US government is estimated to have lost around 135 billion in revenue due to corporate tax avoidance in 2017.
Social Security comes from the FICA taxes, not corporate income taxes.
It is about incentives to take risks resulting in the creation of great companies that drive GDP upward, GDP per capita upwards, GDP per capita PPP upwards, and the standard of living of everyone upwards.
It is about removing disincentives that inhibit the above.
I really truly seriously enjoy and appreciate your posts -- I have probably given dozens of reps to you -- but I think most people would be satisfied with a million a year in personal income.
But, then, most people do not have the mindset of a Donald Trump or John Rockefeller (thank goodness).
But that being said, I do understand what you are saying about the value of entrepreneurs and people who take giant risks and I do think they SHOULD be rewarded. To give just one example, when our son was very young, my husband and I must have said to each other at least two dozen times, "I hope the man who invented Legos is a billionaire!" (Our son could entertain himself for hours a day with Legos.) And the same could be said of anyone who invented anything that significantly improved the lives of millions.
However, to emphasize, my point in my reply to Rodentraiser was that it is difficult to feel sorry for Jeff Bezos, for example, when the average Amazon work struggles to just pay the monthly utility bills. Yes, people usually choose what income level they will achieve by the choices they make, but I still think feel more sorry for the average factory worker than I do for the person who owns the factory.
I really truly seriously enjoy and appreciate your posts -- I have probably given dozens of reps to you -- but I think most people would be satisfied with a million a year in personal income.
But, then, most people do not have the mindset of a Donald Trump or John Rockefeller (thank goodness).
But that being said, I do understand what you are saying about the value of entrepreneurs and people who take giant risks and I do think they SHOULD be rewarded. To give just one example, when our son was very young, my husband and I must have said to each other at least two dozen times, "I hope the man who invented Legos is a billionaire!" (Our son could entertain himself for hours a day with Legos.) And the same could be said of anyone who invented anything that significantly improved the lives of millions.
However, to emphasize, my point in my reply to Rodentraiser was that it is difficult to feel sorry for Jeff Bezos, for example, when the average Amazon work struggles to just pay the monthly utility bills. Yes, people usually choose what income level they will achieve by the choices they make, but I still think feel more sorry for the average factory worker than I do for the person who owns the factory.
Why do you feel sorry for folks who made choices and live with the results? Many of my high school friends, for example, spent 20 or 30 years going to bars a couple of nights a week, having a good time, and now they are reaping the rewards of that with a 50 year old single wide and a bad liver. It was their choice, and they enjoyed their choices. Why feel sorry for them?
Why do you feel sorry for folks who made choices and live with the results? Many of my high school friends, for example, spent 20 or 30 years going to bars a couple of nights a week, having a good time, and now they are reaping the rewards of that with a 50 year old single wide and a bad liver. It was their choice, and they enjoyed their choices. Why feel sorry for them?
I just don't get it.
Because many times people make stupid mistakes when they are young and never recover -- and in many cases, these people were raised by people who made many of the same stupid mistakes when they were young.
Yes, people can OFTEN overcome poor childhoods and being raised by bad parents -- but in most cases, I think, the family you were born into has a LOT to do with how someone "turns out" as an adult.
Of course, there are MANY exceptions, but I think the children of married professionals with university degrees have a much better chance of future success than the children born to a factory worker making $15 or $20 an hour.
Because many times people make stupid mistakes when they are young and never recover -- and in many cases, these people were raised by people who made many of the same stupid mistakes when they were young.
Yes, people can OFTEN overcome poor childhoods and being raised by bad parents -- but in most cases, I think, the family you were born into has a LOT to do with how someone "turns out" as an adult.
Of course, there are MANY exceptions, but I think the children of married professionals with university degrees have a much better chance of future success than the children born to a factory worker making $15 or $20 an hour.
Sorry, but you are being judgmental, not sympathetic. It is their life to live, and they are entitled to live it as they wish, not as you wish. And most of those high school friends of mine, if given the opportunity for a do over, would not change a thing. They have a different definition of "success" than you or I, and they are allowed to pursue it.
Sorry, but you are being judgmental, not sympathetic. It is their life to live, and they are entitled to live it as they wish, not as you wish. And most of those high school friends of mine, if given the opportunity for a do over, would not change a thing. They have a different definition of "success" than you or I, and they are allowed to pursue it.
I don't disagree with what you said, so I don't understand how I can say that I am being judgmental except for my use of the phrases "stupid mistakes" and "bad parents" -- but I did not say that was ALWAYS the case.
I think you are being unfairly judgmental of me -- but of course you are free to do so, and I don't really care if you think I am wrong or not.
I don't disagree with what you said, so I don't understand how I can say that I am being judgmental except for my use of the phrases "stupid mistakes" and "bad parents" -- but I did not say that was ALWAYS the case.
I think you are being unfairly judgmental of me -- but of course you are free to do so, and I don't really care if you think I am wrong or not.
lol - of course there's nothing at all judgmental about the bolded. My bad.
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