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Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
13,062 posts, read 7,497,585 times
Reputation: 9788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moguldreamer
Do you realize if that same single parent (a) made the choice to study while in school and (b) made the choice to get a good job and (c) made the choice to marry prior to producing offspring... well there would be no problem in the first place?
rhetoric
The cause/continuation of poverty is because of independent personal choices?
Premise:
Does low education, and their immediate peers, perpetuate bad choices and results, as seen by higher the higher tiers?
This is Another topic that has been debated since the beginning of time.....
rhetoric
The cause/continuation of poverty is because of independent personal choices?
Premise:
Does low education, and their immediate peers, perpetuate bad choices and results, as seen by higher the higher tiers?
This is Another topic that has been debated since the beginning of time.....
my buddy use to do a lot of off the cuff studies for the board of ed .
one of things he had reported back is that there are cultures that are just anti learning in many schools in the school system ..they don’t want to learn and what they do is ridicule , attack and beat up the good students in the culture .
it becomes a lot easier for the bad kids to pull the good kids down then the good kids are going to pull the bad kids up
This is only my personal experience but I have to agree that hunger in this country comes from bad parenting, not lack of food. It's up to parents with a very limited income to buy nutritious food, and cook simple meals at home, skipping the junk food and skipping spending money on eating at fast food places.
It's a little hard taking the time to cook at all for your family, let alone healthy, when you're working three jobs just to pay the rent. Or if you're working night shift or any shift that has you home when your kids are sleeping or in school. Or if you're living in a motel and you're not allowed to cook in your room. Or if you're living in a shelter and you just have to eat the food they serve. Or if you're living on the street.
Quote:
Originally Posted by moguldreamer
But nowadays, I see signs everywhere directing people to sign up for SNAP, and grocery stores & Costco and the like all have educational signs for SNAP.
It's not the signs directing people to sign up for SNAP.
It's the lack of transportation to the local social services office in a city with little public transportation. It's having to take a day off work and the loss of a day's salary to sit in that office for hours on end. It's trying to get all your documents together when you don't have a car. It's having to recertify every year. And by the way, people on food stamps don't usually go to Costco - they can't afford the membership fee.
When I was in a nursing home for a broken ankle, they changed me over to Home Services. I had to make a special trip across town to get that changed when it came time to recertify my food stamp eligibility. A year later, they still hadn't corrected it. I had to make another trip across town to try to get it changed again. The closest social services building to me is about 25 miles away. The closest food bank to me is 12 miles. "Across town" was 6 miles and 20 minutes away. If I didn't have a car, I'd be screwed.
I go into social services and wait for a couple of hours these days. Otherwise, you can call. If you call right at 8am, they're not open. If you call right at 8:01, you have a half hour's wait to connect with someone who then has to transfer you over to the person doing the recertifying and then you wait another hour or so on hold before you can talk to them. My certification comes in December. I have to be outside to get a signal on my phone. Fun times.
Alternatively, I could fill out their form, but you have to be careful. One of the questions on the form is: Do you own a boat, a car, a recreational vehicle, etc? I had to put down, Yes, I did own a 5th wheel. There's no place to put down that it's your residence. It took a bit to clear that one up. They ask if you pay for city utilities. There's no place to tell them you don't have hot running water.
Now, when I tried to get a free cell phone, I was living in low income housing, a single occupancy room. I was turned down for the phone because the previous resident of my room had already gotten a phone and there is only one free phone to an address. There was no convincing these people I was a new resident.
So when my food stamps got messed up during covid, I had to use the phone at social services to call and get it straightened out because that issue was one they didn't deal with. I was on the phone for over 3 hours. I was very lucky they let me use it for that length of time. The office itself was closed because of covid. They let me in as a courtesy.
Now I'm not using these as examples of how hard life is. I'm simply trying to show you that it's aggravating at the least and expensive at the most to jump through the hoops to get and keep food stamps. And things can go wrong. If they go wrong, it can take a monumental effort to get them set right again. And I do mean monumental.
It's not as easy as seeing a sign and waltzing down to social services and waltzing out again with a card the way you make it seem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by moguldreamer
We can agree you think very little of me as a human being and even less for my points of view, as they are very different from yours, and it just baffles you.
No, I don't think very little of you as a human being. I just think you're incredibly sheltered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd
Were they too ignorant to reap the benefits of taxpayer largesse, in the form of food stamps, section 8, and the rest of the litany of federal and state benefit programs? No (note the highlight above - generational welfare recipients know EXACTLY what benefit programs are available). If their children are hungry, it’s because they are choosing to not feed them. Perhaps they are trading their food stamp/SNAP benefits for drugs, cigarettes, and alcohol, or cash for a new iPhone or pair of Air Jordan’s. If their children are school aged and hungry, it’s because they aren’t sending their kids to school - otherwise those kids would be getting the free breakfast and lunch.
No. If kids are “crying because they’re hungry,” it’s 100% the fault of abusive parents.
Well, alrighty, then. Let's have you take the food stamp test. We'll give you $265 a month to buy food for yourself. Let's see you take that amount of money and last a month on it. Fair enough? You can start on January 1st and on the 31st, you come back to us and tell us, day by day, what you bought, what you spent, how you cooked it, and what you ate. You could start a blog here. We'd read it.
And no, you can't use anything that's already in your pantry, freezer, fridge or cupboards. When I was given $194 a month for food stamps the first time, I had to use almost half of that to buy spices alone. I'm fortunate that I already had pots and pans. I was even more fortunate that I had a library nearby so I could go online and learn to cook, as my mother had never wanted to teach me.
So come on, then. You, marino760, and moguldreamer. You guys think it's so easy. Now it's time to put up or shut up.
Last edited by rodentraiser; 12-23-2023 at 12:16 PM..
Reason: spelling
It's a little hard taking the time to cook at all for your family, let alone healthy, when you're working three jobs just to pay the rent. Or if you're living in a motel and you're not allowed to cook in your room. Or if you're living in a shelter and you just have to eat the food they serve.
It's not the signs directing people to sign up for SNAP.
It's the lack of transportation to the local office in a city with little public transportation. It's having to take a day off of work and a loss of a day's salary to sit in that office for hours on end. It's trying to get all your documents together when you don't have a car.
If I didn't have a car, I'd be screwed. The closest social services building to me is about 25 miles away. the closest food bank is 12 miles. And by the way, people on food stamps don't go to Costco - they usually can't afford the membership fee.
No, I don't think very little of you as a human being. I just think you're incredibly sheltered.
Well, alrighty, then. Let's have you take the food stamp test. We'll give you $265 a month to buy food for yourself. Let's see you take that amount of money and last a month on it. Fair enough? You can start on January 1st and on the 31st, you come back to us and tell us, day by day, what you bought and what you ate.
And no, you can't use anything that's already in your pantry, freezer, fridge or cupboards. When I was given $194 a month for food stamps the first time, I had to use almost half of that to buy spices alone. I'm fortunate that I already had pots and pans. I was even more fortunate that I had a library nearby so I could go online and learn to cook, as my mother had never wanted to teach me.
So come on, then. You, marino760, and moguldreamer. You guys think it's so easy. Now it's time to put up or shut up.
personally i wouldn’t live in a place where i couldn’t easily get around and every thing was an ordeal to do with a low income
that is why places like nyc are the mecca for the unskilled and low paid
we have an extensive public transportation system that can get you anywhere
tons of need for low skilled workers as well as many jobs have advancement potential for those who are suitable
loads of assistance programs
stabilized housing
ethnic neighborhoods where one can live with their own
help on everything from food to utility costs
most people just drift like corks in water to wherever they float and never take control of where they are drifting so they stay in the same place doing the same thing drifting from one bad situation to another .
it is always easier to do nothing then something about a situation.
those who really want to will find a way ..the rest will find an excuse
It's a little hard taking the time to cook at all for your family, let alone healthy, when you're working three jobs just to pay the rent. Or if you're working night shift or any shift that has you home when your kids are sleeping or in school. Or if you're living in a motel and you're not allowed to cook in your room. Or if you're living in a shelter and you just have to eat the food they serve. Or if you're living on the street.
It's not the signs directing people to sign up for SNAP.
It's the lack of transportation to the local social services office in a city with little public transportation. It's having to take a day off work and the loss of a day's salary to sit in that office for hours on end. It's trying to get all your documents together when you don't have a car. It's having to recertify every year. And by the way, people on food stamps don't usually go to Costco - they can't afford the membership fee.
When I was in a nursing home for a broken ankle, they changed me over to Home Services. I had to make a special trip across town to get that changed when it came time to recertify my food stamp eligibility. A year later, they still hadn't corrected it. I had to make another trip across town to try to get it changed again. The closest social services building to me is about 25 miles away. The closest food bank to me is 12 miles. "Across town" was 6 miles and 20 minutes away. If I didn't have a car, I'd be screwed.
I go into social services and wait for a couple of hours these days. Otherwise, you can call. If you call right at 8am, they're not open. If you call right at 8:01, you have a half hour's wait to connect with someone who then has to transfer you over to the person doing the recertifying and then you wait another hour or so on hold before you can talk to them. My certification comes in December. I have to be outside to get a signal on my phone. Fun times.
Alternatively, I could fill out their form, but you have to be careful. One of the questions on the form is: Do you own a boat, a car, a recreational vehicle, etc? I had to put down, Yes, I did own a 5th wheel. There's no place to put down that it's your residence. It took a bit to clear that one up. They ask if you pay for city utilities. There's no place to tell them you don't have hot running water.
Now, when I tried to get a free cell phone, I was living in low income housing, a single occupancy room. I was turned down for the phone because the previous resident of my room had already gotten a phone and there is only one free phone to an address. There was no convincing these people I was a new resident.
So when my food stamps got messed up during covid, I had to use the phone at social services to call and get it straightened out because that issue was one they didn't deal with. I was on the phone for over 3 hours. I was very lucky they let me use it for that length of time. The office itself was closed because of covid. They let me in as a courtesy.
Now I'm not using these as examples of how hard life is. I'm simply trying to show you that it's aggravating at the least and expensive at the most to jump through the hoops to get and keep food stamps. And things can go wrong. If they go wrong, it can take a monumental effort to get them set right again. And I do mean monumental.
It's not as easy as seeing a sign and waltzing down to social services and waltzing out again with a card the way you make it seem.
I don’t remember the last time I saw somebody whine so much about being on the receiving end of so much free stuff. Taxpayers are providing for you, and you’re complaining about it. It’s not hard to see why your life has been the way that it has.
Quote:
Well, alrighty, then. Let's have you take the food stamp test. We'll give you $265 a month to buy food for yourself. Let's see you take that amount of money and last a month on it. Fair enough? You can start on January 1st and on the 31st, you come back to us and tell us, day by day, what you bought, what you spent, how you cooked it, and what you ate. You could start a blog here. We'd read it.
And no, you can't use anything that's already in your pantry, freezer, fridge or cupboards. When I was given $194 a month for food stamps the first time, I had to use almost half of that to buy spices alone. I'm fortunate that I already had pots and pans. I was even more fortunate that I had a library nearby so I could go online and learn to cook, as my mother had never wanted to teach me.
Why would I do such a silly thing? I have made good decisions throughout the entirety of my life specifically so that I wouldn’t have to do such a thing.
Quote:
So come on, then. You, marino760, and moguldreamer. You guys think it's so easy. Now it's time to put up or shut up.
We have been “putting up.” I have not only made the decisions that have kept me out of poverty, I’ve also spent the majority of my career teaching people about money and how it works, with the ultimate goal of improving their lives. moguldreamer and others have discussed their personal situations about not only what they have done for themselves, but what they have done for others. On the other hand, you live a parasitic existence, and whine and complain that it can be challenging to get all of your taxpayer funded goodies.
The Doers already do. And continue to do so day after day. And in a similar manner, the Takers continue to take - day after day. . .
I think that's an important point. "They don't see." A lot of people operate on the premise that life is something that just happens to them. It doesn't even cross their minds that they can do something different. I was once that way because my mother was raised that way and probably her parents and grandparents before them.
It never even OCCURRED to me to think about going to college, because that was something other people did, not us. My father had an engineering degree, but only because after losing his legs in WWII, he could no longer work as an electrician and he had the GI bill. However, he also had what we now know was probably severe, undiagnosed PTSD, and he really never spoke to his 7 kids about school or our future. After grade school, nobody asked if I did my homework or looked at my report card.
We did have a strong work ethic and were expected to get jobs as teenagers, and even before, doing babysitting, yardwork, paper routes, to buy anything we wanted above the basics our parents provided, and for that I am grateful.
Eventually, a year or so out of high school, realizing I hated working in retail and needed to learn to type, I asked my parents if I could go to secretarial school for a year and not pay my $20 a week board, which they required if we lived home, and they said yes. Those skills led to a job at a public agency where I stayed for the next 37 years, able to move up into management. I was lucky, and as someone said, I made some decisions that changed things. I also made some bad decisions, such as getting married, because I thought that was my core goal and purpose, not working. In the end, work helped me survive the bad marriage.
But I am saying it took a long time to see that life could be different from what I took for granted it would be. Once I was no longer married, I assumed I could never own a home of my own. In fact, it was the opposite. I was only able to buy a home after I got rid of the dead weight husband and paid off the debt he'd cost me.
I assumed that without a college degree, I'd be stuck at lower-level jobs, but I moved into management without them. The down side was that I always felt like an imposter, an intruder in the world of the normal people who knew what to do and how to act and who take for granted that some things in life are theirs by right to have.
Anyway, my kid got her PhD last year. She and three of her cousins have broken the generational mold of "other people go to college" (although my youngest sister, a mother at 18, got a degree at 46), and oddly enough, she and two of the others will never have children.
Some people never let themselves imagine that life can be different from what they know. I am grateful that life forced me to imagine it.
In my household as a kid, with my mom working to support us doing manual labor, she never made it a question if my sister and I would go to college. It was ingrained in us that we would continue education after high school. We both worked part time and commuted to university. In return, we were allowed to live at home without paying rent. We both graduated with bachelor degrees, my sister becoming an engineer.
Last edited by marino760; 12-23-2023 at 02:28 PM..
So come on, then. You, marino760, and moguldreamer. You guys think it's so easy. Now it's time to put up or shut up.
What, pray tell, in your view is "put up?"
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