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I've actually read a number of such things happening, and then it occurred to me--especially in recent years, I have noticed that rural people (not sure if this was "rural" or not) seem to be really paranoid and "trigger happy" about the prospect of a burglar breaking into their house. They seem to have a really inflated sense of the supposed "high crime rate" of their dinky little town.
I grew up in the rural areas myself, but I spent 10 years in the city before returning to the "sticks" and really noticing this phenomenon. Let me tell you, obviously no place is 100% crime-free, but these people in the sticks acting like their dinky little area is some hot-bed of criminal activity, are you kidding me? Try living in a place where murders appear on page B13 of your newspaper and THEN get back to me about the "crime wave" in your area. They have no clue (and again, I grew up in the sticks and am living there again, so this is not some "city slicker talking down to people in the sticks" as much as it appears, I'm more someone who IS a person in the sticks but who also spent time in the city so I have exposure to both).
I say this because, well, to me, besides just being ignorant in and of itself, to me this mentality is what leads to tragedies such as this, people having a very exaggerated sense of crime in rural areas and being too "trigger happy" as well. If I understand correctly, even the NRA, an organization I like by the way, teaches and stresses gun SAFETY and RESPONSIBILITY, they don't just support the 2nd amendment (by the way I support it too), they also stress responsibility.
Paranoia isn't just irritating, it's also deadly it seems, at least on some occasions. Have these people never heard of yelling out "hello" first or the like? THINK before you pull that trigger, THINK.
its ok to be safety conscious but paranoia is different. but my question is, why did he shoot immediately w/o trying to identify the intruder? could he have issued a warning first before shooting? or just asking who is that?
In the rural areas around here in east Tennessee, there is a significant drug problem. If someone is acting in a suspicious manner, they are likely on drugs or looking to commit a crime that is somehow drug related.
It's that way in a lot of rural places. Back in the late 90s, a friend I worked with in NYC moved up to the Catskills for a while, upstate New York. She came to realize there was a big heroin problem up there in the middle of nowhere. Still is.
My sister lives in the Poconos, another rural area (at least some parts of it still are). She has a handgun in a holster bolted to her wood bed frame with a clear line of sight to the back door on the other side of the hall. Like someone else said, no neighbors are close enough to yell for help. Somebody breaks through that door, whack.
its ok to be safety conscious but paranoia is different. but my question is, why did he shoot immediately w/o trying to identify the intruder? could he have issued a warning first before shooting? or just asking who is that?
Exactly. I think it's that "Rambo wanna-be" disposition many such persons can indulge in. Like I said, I have heard many a person, mostly rural persons, who seem to get almost excited when talking about how they have a .45 or a .357 Magnum or a 12 gauge pump shotgun and boy just wait until someone tries to mess with me, can't wait to show them a thing or two. Maybe they've been watching too much "Walker, Texas Ranger" or something. I think city "gang bangers" do that too, but then they're flat-out criminals wheras the given rural people are good people who are just getting carried away in their thinking sometimes.
Me, I'd rather there NOT be something like that going on and me having to make such a choice. As you alluded to, I have no problem with a person being prepared, although people being so on edge as they can be can cause people to treat their own neighbors with excessive suspicion and I'd rather people especially in rural areas be more hospitable (during normal hours), but that's one thing. It's another for that sort of thinking to lead one to, as you said, fail to call out first or fire a warning shot into the air etc.
As my uncle once said, when I was asking him if a semi-auto 9mm with a clip was more suitable for home defense than a .38 special revolver that only would fire six shots, 99.5% of people don't need something that can fire 20-odd rounds because most of the time a would-be burglar upon hearing a shot go off will think better of what he/she's trying to do and get a real quick change of heart and get on out of there. Thus, get a revolver, its simpler design makes it easier to maintain and less likely to jam and is thus better for the average person simply wanting something around for self-defense that's half-decent.
As the one person said, I myself have found stray animals to be more of a thing than anything else. In our area we sometimes get armadillos and they will ransack your dog food, I once put a bag of dog food in a cooler thinking that would fix the problem and the next morning found it turned over where apparently the armadillo "tumbled it" to get it open. I had to start putting cinder blocks on top of it, that fixed it. In past years I had a neighbor with pit bulls and he didn't keep his animals under control and they kept coming into my yard acting menacing. I told him over and over I didn't want this, but he didn't listen--until I took one of his out (with the sheriff's deputy telling me I had the right to do so), with that they were no longer a problem.
My parents are both from dinky little towns. They spent time in adulthood in cities and suburbs. And now in retirement they live in a small rural community. Town is likely overstating it.
They are a bit paranoid of crime.
Every time I talk to my mom, she is a little worried because she heard about a crime in my city on the news. 95% of the time it is in a part of town I never go to that is 7-10+ miles away. They tend to over report crime in my city. Honestly, she should likely be more worried about the blocks near my office. There is more crime near there, in place I go, than I see in my own city.
Additionally, my mom is getting a little paranoid in her older years. She watches a lot of dateline, ID, and all the other true crime shows. And she has appetizers of Cops and those Gangland shows. She she also worries that stuff happens in the "city."
Ironically a few years ago, some family drama at their neighbors home lead to a shooting where someone was killed. They heard the gunshots. There seems to be a shooting every other year in their town.
The combo of seeing all of the true crime shows, hearing about crime on the news and anecdotal stories about their own city make them paranoid. They eat have stories about someone pulling a gun on an intruder in their childhood homes. My mom's community was like the Wild West. Lost of disputes were settled with gunshots and threats.
American culture breeds on crime. We are fascinated by it. We make heroes out of vigilantes. In Hollywood and in real life. The American story is the story of violence, and it is has been that way since our founding.
It's not that major crimes are a common problem. It's that at my place you're entirely on your own when they do happen. No neighbor in shouting distance. Hardly any cell signal at my cabin, and forget about the police coming out there in any reasonable amount of time (in winter if there's snow they'll be needing to literally drive to the end of the plowed town road, then unload a snowmobile to get the rest of the way in).
Would the bad guys be somehow exempt from those same conditions?
One can talk about low probability but if the situation does happen to "you", that really is the pits!
One of the interesting things on the side of this discussion is that if a game warden comes across poachers, he's in a world of hurt because the odds are vastly against him. More of them, better armed, they know how to use their guns very well, backup is an hour away, and there are no witnesses. (although the leading cause of death of wardens is drowning)
So can we say there is no reason to be wary?
As things go, my daily trips to and from home and work is about to change in a very big way. Thirty to forty minutes of driving in the country (Around here, the transition from country to city is like night and day. One second you are in the country, the next you are in the city). It is a trip that I am going to be armed every day on. Would "you" drive through the country unarmed?
So can we say there is no reason to be wary?
I guess there is a need for game wardens to be wary of water and possibly criminal "sportsmen."
Yes, I certainly would drive virtually anywhere in the US unarmed, and I do.
I would say there's a need to be aware of one's surroundings but there should be no need to go through life wary of every turn in the road.
Exactly. I think it's that "Rambo wanna-be" disposition many such persons can indulge in. Like I said, I have heard many a person, mostly rural persons, who seem to get almost excited when talking about how they have a .45 or a .357 Magnum or a 12 gauge pump shotgun and boy just wait until someone tries to mess with me, can't wait to show them a thing or two. Maybe they've been watching too much "Walker, Texas Ranger" or something. I think city "gang bangers" do that too, but then they're flat-out criminals wheras the given rural people are good people who are just getting carried away in their thinking sometimes.
To each their own. I use the .45 because that is what I was trained on in the military. Further, as I get older, I find the single stack is easier on my hands.
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Me, I'd rather there NOT be something like that going on and me having to make such a choice. As you alluded to, I have no problem with a person being prepared, although people being so on edge as they can be can cause people to treat their own neighbors with excessive suspicion and I'd rather people especially in rural areas be more hospitable (during normal hours), but that's one thing. It's another for that sort of thinking to lead one to, as you said, fail to call out first or fire a warning shot into the air etc.
OKAY. Let's talk about warning shots. Two things about them. First of all, remember that what goes up must come down. So one fires that warning shot in the air and it comes down on someone's head (been known to happen). Is that shot innocent? Harmless?
Secondly, in the same line of thought, if I shoot, all rounds MUST land in their intended target. If I shoot and a round lands in an innocent bystander, I go to jail. It is as simple as that.
Second thing. One only shoots because they are in fear for their life (or a loved one). If one shoots a warning shot, then they are not in fear of their life. That is the way the law sees it.
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As my uncle once said, when I was asking him if a semi-auto 9mm with a clip was more suitable for home defense than a .38 special revolver that only would fire six shots, 99.5% of people don't need something that can fire 20-odd rounds because most of the time a would-be burglar upon hearing a shot go off will think better of what he/she's trying to do and get a real quick change of heart and get on out of there. Thus, get a revolver, its simpler design makes it easier to maintain and less likely to jam and is thus better for the average person simply wanting something around for self-defense that's half-decent.
It's good advice about the revolver. I remember hearing something similar.....when the subject was about what kind of guns terrorists might use.
As far as carrying three magazines (22-31 rounds), that is just standard training. I certainly hope I never need to use any of them, certainly hope I never need more than the first one, but such is part of the basics of carrying a gun.
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Originally Posted by payutenyodagimas
its ok to be safety conscious but paranoia is different. but my question is, why did he shoot immediately w/o trying to identify the intruder? could he have issued a warning first before shooting? or just asking who is that?
WE weren't there. WE can't answer those questions. WE don't know the situation (beyond the soundbite the news gives us), WE don't know what was going through his mind in the protection of his family, WE don't know the immediate past of the situation, etc, etc, etc.
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Originally Posted by shyguylh
Exactly. I tend to think maybe it's a "Barney Fife" syndrome, on many episodes he would "drum up" action when Sheriff Taylor had it right--in a simple place like this, you don't need all of that nonsense. For Barney Fife, though, the boredom got to him, so he pretty much made a mountain out a molehill so as to have some action going on. I think that's a lot of it, it's as if the lack of drama bored him.....
One has to keep in mind that Sheriff Taylor lived before the times of, say for example purposes, Ted Bundy. Hence why Ted Bundy was so successful. People were more friendly, women had gained a certain degree of independence, and people were unsuspecting. Three perfect conditions, being drop dead handsome did help as well, that he could use to his maximum advantage.
As it was for him, so it could be for another.
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Originally Posted by TabulaRasa
Yes, and do so constantly. 40-ish years, now, and counting.
(About driving through the country unarmed)
I don't and moreso, it has been a project not to bike through the country unarmed, either. Why? Should someone knock me off my bike in a collision, it is just as easy to make the second pass and remove the only witness, me. Isolated and no other witnesses, if they are going to make a hit and run of it, why not make one with a reduced chance of being caught.
Maybe others are more trusting of their fellow humans, but I am not. Be it one way or another, such as having a million dollar liability policy on my land. Why? In case a poacher comes on my land after deer and gets injured and then wants to sue me for it. This is also a reason why, in the mail box discussion, I am not too anxious to get rid of my gate since passages without barriers have legally, at times, been seen as invitations for people to come in and do whatever the case is about. Such as if one has a high platform without at least a line across blocking it that someone used to commit suicide from. When it comes to lawsuits and juries, common sense may not enter into it. Back to the ranch, I don't want people on my land without my permission; this is why I don't remove cactus or fire ants.
But....perhaps that is because I know too much.
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Originally Posted by kokonutty
I guess there is a need for game wardens to be wary of water and possibly criminal "sportsmen."
Yes, I certainly would drive virtually anywhere in the US unarmed, and I do.
I would say there's a need to be aware of one's surroundings but there should be no need to go through life wary of every turn in the road.
Well, as I said above, I perhaps know too much......such as not seeing the poacher as a criminal "sportsman" but a form of a domestic terrorist. HOWEVER, before we get too much into that, let me say that my LE background of terrorism goes back to at least 1985 so I may have a broader view of the subject than most Americans.
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Originally Posted by Nonesuch
.........It's a rare event, that's why it's news. ..........
Maybe also because people are a little bit more aware of how situations can be perceived.
In my life, I have noted two fallacies. The first is "It will never happen to me." The second is "Because I (know I) am not a threat, no one will perceive me as a threat.". I've had at least one situation in the city, another on an AF base, where I have observed the second, one of them triggering my hand to hand skills.
I know that fallacy and I conduct my life by it. If I see that someone, in the actuality a mother with child, has dropped something from her basket on the way to her car, I pick it up but stand off at distance until I can announce my presence and request permission to approach. If I see a lost child, I shadow at distance until I can alert and direct authorities to the child.....and have done that at least twice.
For whatever reason one says they shouldn't have to, it is life.
Last edited by TamaraSavannah; 01-23-2017 at 10:34 PM..
The one I keep hearing is ........" my town is safe because everybody knows everybody "
There must be at least one road that leads to your town and away from your town.
You have no idea who travels those roads at nights and where they are from because it is illegal for law enforcement to stop cars on a public road simply to ask......" where are you going this time of night"?
Location: Metro Atlanta (Sandy Springs), by way of Macon, GA
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I'm not sure where you're from, but many rural areas in the DEEP south have the same demographics and poverty (many times higher rates) as the urban centers.
i.e. Speaking of Chicago's Southside as you did in one of your post, last year law enforcement did a big sweep of Chicago-based Gangster Disciples/FOLKS Nation members here in Georgia. They arrested around 5 dudes with rank in tiny Cochran, Georgia alone. Some guy got shot in the same town right near Middle Georgia State College not too long ago as well.
Cops got shot in tiny, Americus, Eastman, and Byron, Georgia.
little Selma, Alabama has characters and neighborhoods like the video below. I dont know about rural Midwest, West, Eastern, etc. states but there isn't much difference in many of these tiny towns than the big cities down south.
Jeez, get a dog. I have a 110 lb. large Munsterlander with a protective attitude. He does not like strangers. He once tangled with a mountain lion, and the mountain lion lost. Intrude at your own risk.
I once had a Chesapeake Bay Retriever with the same personality. I was living in town when I got him. I fenced the back yard and piled up concrete blocks so he could get in and out of the house. When the Chessie was just 9 months old, a burglar saw the dog in the back yard and decided to break in. When I got home, the front and back doors were wide open, the dog was on the porch to greet me, and there were pieces of burglar all over the inside of the house. When properly introduced he was very friendly, and he absolutely adored children, but if you didn't belong you better keep your distance. I once parked him on top of $5000 worth of dive gear in the back of my pickup in downtown Seattle while I took a lunch break. Everything was there when I got back.
These are not guard dogs, they are bird dogs trained to retrieve. They just bond fiercely with their owners and their homes.
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