Thoughts on the Mill at Broadway? (Sacramento: sales, homes, neighborhoods)

[NickB1967]

Originally Posted by Stay West

The Mill at Broadway is located adjacent to public housing slums, a high school, and industrial parks. Oh and you're going to need good flood insurance too. I would call anyone choosing to live there desperate or foolish.

In this economy, the new homebuyers may indeed be desperate.

However, the new homebuyers are likely to be younger adults, single or newlywed or newly coupled.

In other words, people who can more or less take care of themselves, and people who won't interact with the project people, and who certainly won't send their not-yet-born children to school with them. At the marketing website, the focus is clearly on younger adults; you do not see a single picture of a kid playing, or an elderly person, or even a middle aged adult.

I could see these as swell "Starter Homes" for twentysomething and thirtysomething people, and future rental property for them if/when they have children and move somewhere better to raise them.

[kenpetruzzelli]

They're marketing to young adults looking to buy a first home, who likely work in downtown or midtown, and would prefer to walk, bicycle, or use transit. This helps keep the costs down. The same goes for lacking a big yard, which is something a lot of 20 and 30-somethings would rather not bother with anyway.

[Logic87]

Originally Posted by NickB1967

In this economy, the new homebuyers may indeed be desperate.

However, the new homebuyers are likely to be younger adults, single or newlywed or newly coupled.

In other words, people who can more or less take care of themselves, and people who won't interact with the project people, and who certainly won't send their not-yet-born children to school with them. At the marketing website, the focus is clearly on younger adults; you do not see a single picture of a kid playing, or an elderly person, or even a middle aged adult.

I could see these as swell "Starter Homes" for twentysomething and thirtysomething people, and future rental property for them if/when they have children and move somewhere better to raise them.

Looks like I fit their demographic lol. 20 something year old yuppie looking to buy close to downtown Sacramento, no kids yet and can't really afford Land Park. I don't necessarily need my own yard and as long as I have one parking space I will be fine.

My plan is to maybe buy one of these units and possibly rent it out in 5 years or so.

Is there alot of street parking available in this area?

[Stay West]

In other words, people who can more or less take care of themselves, and people who won't interact with the project people, and who certainly won't send their not-yet-born children to school with them. At the marketing website, the focus is clearly on younger adults; you do not see a single picture of a kid playing, or an elderly person, or even a middle aged adult.

I could see these as swell "Starter Homes" for twentysomething and thirtysomething people, and future rental property for them if/when they have children and move somewhere better to raise them.

Ah yes, the mythical homebuying young adult seeking a dwelling that has none of the benefits of ownership. It's just like renting except you get to pay HOAs, PMI and flood insurance - what an opportunity! The ridiculous video ad says it all, they're basically targeting people too lazy or ignorant to find a solid real estate investment.

I don't believe 20 and 30 somethings of today are so different from previous generations that they no longer are considering homes with the potential to raise a family. Usually by the time you're looking at home buying you're old enough to realize you won't be out and about drinking, partying and vacationing every weekend for the rest of your life. And that fantasy is the only reason someone would invest in purchasing at a place like The Mill - just like their own advertisement states. This isn't San Francisco, there's plenty of affordable places to buy in the urban center and there will be for a long long time.

[Chimérique]

Originally Posted by Stay West

Ah yes, the mythical homebuying young adult seeking a dwelling that has none of the benefits of ownership. It's just like renting except you get to pay HOAs, PMI and flood insurance - what an opportunity! The ridiculous video ad says it all, they're basically targeting people too lazy or ignorant to find a solid real estate investment.

I don't believe 20 and 30 somethings of today are so different from previous generations that they no longer are considering homes with the potential to raise a family. Usually by the time you're looking at home buying you're old enough to realize you won't be out and about drinking, partying and vacationing every weekend for the rest of your life. And that fantasy is the only reason someone would invest in purchasing at a place like The Mill - just like their own advertisement states. This isn't San Francisco, there's plenty of affordable places to buy in the urban center and there will be for a long long time.

If the prices were cheaper I would consider it as an investment.

But it sounds like, even if the prices were a lot cheaper, you would still have a beef against this place, is there a reason why?

If they were building 2,500 to 3,500 sq. ft. homes on larger lots that looked a lot like Land Park homes, priced at market rate, then would that have your approval?

Or perhaps maybe it should be more HUD housing? or a Park? How about state offices?

Or maybe you would be happy if it stayed exactly like it was?

[wburg]

Originally Posted by Logic87

Looks like I fit their demographic lol. 20 something year old yuppie looking to buy close to downtown Sacramento, no kids yet and can't really afford Land Park. I don't necessarily need my own yard and as long as I have one parking space I will be fine.

My plan is to maybe buy one of these units and possibly rent it out in 5 years or so.

Is there alot of street parking available in this area?

The neighborhood we're talking about is not built yet, it's an industrial area about to be knocked down and a big chunk of dirt about to be built upon. There will probably not be very much street parking in the area once it is built out--it's in the "traditional neighborhood" parking zone so the units will probably have one space each (maybe 2 car garages for the biggest units) and a percentage of visitor-parking lots for the whole development.

I suppose if you want a neighborhood as boring/safe as the suburbs that's closer to the interesting parts of town and can't afford McKinley Village or Curtis Park Village, it could work, but most of that demographic might be off-put by the nearby housing projects, even if it's new housing projects instead of old ones.

[derekjones]

Originally Posted by Stay West

Ah yes, the mythical homebuying young adult seeking a dwelling that has none of the benefits of ownership. It's just like renting except you get to pay HOAs, PMI and flood insurance - what an opportunity! The ridiculous video ad says it all, they're basically targeting people too lazy or ignorant to find a solid real estate investment.

I don't believe 20 and 30 somethings of today are so different from previous generations that they no longer are considering homes with the potential to raise a family. Usually by the time you're looking at home buying you're old enough to realize you won't be out and about drinking, partying and vacationing every weekend for the rest of your life. And that fantasy is the only reason someone would invest in purchasing at a place like The Mill - just like their own advertisement states. This isn't San Francisco, there's plenty of affordable places to buy in the urban center and there will be for a long long time.

To put things in perspective I'm 31 and own a home with my wife, yet the majority of our friends rent and like the downtown environment. They are actually looking forward to possibly moving to the Mills, mostly because it gives them that downtown feel without the $400k+ downtown price. For some proximity to downtown is the deciding factor and they're willing to sacrifice yard space, and privacy.

Depending on what those units could rent for it may make a decent rental property, I'm considering getting in on the second phase depending on how rents look.

[NickB1967]

Originally Posted by Stay West

Ah yes, the mythical homebuying young adult seeking a dwelling that has none of the benefits of ownership. It's just like renting except you get to pay HOAs, PMI and flood insurance - what an opportunity! The ridiculous video ad says it all, they're basically targeting people too lazy or ignorant to find a solid real estate investment.

Huh? These homes *are* being sold to own. If the area continues to gentrify, then it *is* a solid investment. Indeed, a once slummy Midtown has done just that.

And that gentrification was due to NON-family people, "fruity" people at that. Bad schools like Sacramento High (pre K.J. anyway, and I would still be skeptical), which family buyers would avoid like the plague, didn't bother people who were not sending any kids to them.

Originally Posted by Stay West

I don't believe 20 and 30 somethings of today are so different from previous generations that they no longer are considering homes with the potential to raise a family. Usually by the time you're looking at home buying you're old enough to realize you won't be out and about drinking, partying and vacationing every weekend for the rest of your life. And that fantasy is the only reason someone would invest in purchasing at a place like The Mill - just like their own advertisement states.

You are correct that others are looking with a family in mind, and those people are going out to places like Rocklin to look at places like this:

http://www.whitneyranchca.com/homes/overview/

Note the different sales pitch, in words and especially pictures, vs. The Mill.

From builders like this:

https://www.kbhome.com/new-homes-sac...efgaAjCe8P8HAQ

Or if they are more affluent, something better built than a "Kay-Bee" Home, which, as homebuilders go, is the most modestly priced builder.

Originally Posted by Stay West

This isn't San Francisco, there's plenty of affordable places to buy in the urban center and there will be for a long long time.

However, those homes are older, shabbier, "fixer uppers" and need repairs and maintenance. I suspect some people will pay extra for something that is new and "turn key" ready.

Moreover, those homes you mention are in the more crappy school districts too.

[wburg]

New homes need maintenance too, especially if the linked article above about Bardis & Reynen homes is any indication of their build quality. As to affordable places to buy in the urban center, there really aren't that many places to buy in the central city (there are only about 2000 "ownership" homes, most of which are not for sale, and 18-20,000 rental units total) and the closest relatively inexpensive neighborhoods are no closer to the "urban center" than the Mill. I don't think they will draw a certain type of urban buyer who does want an older house, or a mixture of older homes--the big downside to large new developments that demo the existing use is a lack of an established neighborhood and the eclectic feel that comes with it. Even a mixture of faux-historic styles at best approximates that sort of neighborhood, but never accurately recreates it. The result is an enclave of suburbia in the urban core--which appeals to another sort of buyer.

From what I see, the people who want to raise kids downtown are, where they can, leveraging themselves into Midtown where the houses often have yards (albeit small ones) and there are neighborhood parks, and established neighborhoods to become part of. Plus, no HOA fees/restrictions--and even the new small-infill developments are pretty mild in that regard.

[Stay West]

If the prices were cheaper I would consider it as an investment.

Just remember that your builder managed to get a into a billion dollar bankruptcy as an individual. The magnitude of that is simply absurd. Good luck with an investment at the Mill should anything go wrong.

You can bet these homes will be built for maximum profit and leverage every sales tactic to fool buyers. As the above poster stated, all homes need maintanence even new ones. Too bad Orwellian HOAs will prevent improvements from being made. Better hope the home design is perfect from day one.