Incarnate Word Student Killed During Traffic Stop (Terrell, Terrell Hills: rent, universities)

[dba07]

Originally Posted by HeadedWest

Heh.

Yeah seriously. Right after world peace is declared, and bigfoot and the loch ness monster call a press conference announcing they're real.

[dba07]

Originally Posted by ItsTheTruth

What if we stopped putting cops on a pedestal? What if police unions actually let bad officers be fired? What if we stopped assuming that cops lie less than others? Steal less than others? Commit crimes less than others?

The problem with this case is that there will be no court case for the student, because a cop shot him, unarmed.

Cops are civil servants, nothing more. Their authority exists only within the scope of a lawful investigation. Beyond that, they are not above averahe citizens. They work for us.


Unfortunately, many have forgotten that fact.

[dba07]

Originally Posted by ItsTheTruth

Or what if colleges didn't have campus cops? Or didn't give them weapons? What happens at UIW that couldn't be handled by SAPD?

That works here in europe. The people here are puzzled why we even have campus police in the first place.

[TexasRedneck]

Originally Posted by dba07

That works here in europe. The people here are puzzled why we even have campus police in the first place.

Heaven knows that Europe is uber-safe.....

[Neshomamench]

Originally Posted by dba07

Cops are civil servants, nothing more. Their authority exists only within the scope of a lawful investigation. Beyond that, they are not above averahe citizens. They work for us.


Unfortunately, many have forgotten that fact.

Your statement is not true.

For example, traffic control. There are many reasons why Peace Officer direct traffic, even for private events. There is no lawful investigation but a Peace Officers authority to direct traffic is lawful. You have done nothing wrong, you are accused of no crime but you have to obey.

There are many other examples. A business wants a rude customer removed. The Cops are not conducting a legal investigation. The person is not accused of any crime but he must obey.

...Removing people from a hazard, detaining people for mental health issues, taking reports for civil issues such as traffic crashed on private and public property or civil issues related to court orders. If a Judge says "Officer so and so, you will go to such and such a place and bring me that person, now...." You do it, even if it is for a civil issue. There is no investigation of any kind. It could be a civil trial between a lawn mowing service and a homeowner.

There is also the community care taking function. There is no crime nor is one being investigated. For example, An officer sees a car going down the road with a purse on the roof. The officer has no criminal evidentiary standard to stop that car but of course he can. Just like entering a house where an old person has not been seen or heard from in several days.

I could go on but I think my point is well made.

[Neshomamench]

Originally Posted by ItsTheTruth

Or what if colleges didn't have campus cops? Or didn't give them weapons? What happens at UIW that couldn't be handled by SAPD?

Because the citizens of San Antonio do not pay (and should not) for Police services to a private college nor can SAPD provide them with the specific services they want when they want it.

No matter how you feel about it, it is up to the entity if they want a police department and they obviously do. It makes sense to them. SAPD would (because they don't have the resources to do anything else) be reactionary to problems they have. With their own police department, they can decide how to use those resources.

[dba07]

Originally Posted by TexasRedneck

Heaven knows that Europe is uber-safe.....

None of my students here have been shot by a cop.

[dba07]

Originally Posted by Neshomamench

Your statement is not true.

For example, traffic control. There are many reasons why Peace Officer direct traffic, even for private events. There is no lawful investigation but a Peace Officers authority to direct traffic is lawful. You have done nothing wrong, you are accused of no crime but you have to obey.

There are many other examples. A business wants a rude customer removed. The Cops are not conducting a legal investigation. The person is not accused of any crime but he must obey.

...Removing people from a hazard, detaining people for mental health issues, taking reports for civil issues such as traffic crashed on private and public property or civil issues related to court orders. If a Judge says "Officer so and so, you will go to such and such a place and bring me that person, now...." You do it, even if it is for a civil issue. There is no investigation of any kind. It could be a civil trial between a lawn mowing service and a homeowner.

There is also the community care taking function. There is no crime nor is one being investigated. For example, An officer sees a car going down the road with a purse on the roof. The officer has no criminal evidentiary standard to stop that car but of course he can. Just like entering a house where an old person has not been seen or heard from in several days.

I could go on but I think my point is well made.

Fair enough, investigation was thr wrong word. My point is they are civil servants, not above the law, and neednt be blindly obeyed.

[dba07]

Originally Posted by Neshomamench

Because the citizens of San Antonio do not pay (and should not) for Police services to a private college nor can SAPD provide them with the specific services they want when they want it.

No matter how you feel about it, it is up to the entity if they want a police department and they obviously do. It makes sense to them. SAPD would (because they don't have the resources to do anything else) be reactionary to problems they have. With their own police department, they can decide how to use those resources.

The hell they don't. The individuals within the school are tax payers and deserve police protection as well.

[Neshomamench]

Originally Posted by dba07

Fair enough, investigation was thr wrong word. My point is they are civil servants, not above the law, and neednt be blindly obeyed.

"Above the law" is a phrase most people also don't apply correctly.

There are many exemptions for police in the law. Thus, by definition, when the police exercise those exemptions, they cant be "above the law."

Also, from a legal standpoint, in most cases, they must be "blindly obeyed." I challenge you to show how it is otherwise is most cases. I will be happy to show you where the law is very clear about cops and lawful orders.