Incarnate Word Student Killed During Traffic Stop (Allen, Orange: construction, cars)

[WilGar]

Things that smell:

1. Texas Rangers being called in so quickly.

2. Bexar County DA involved so quickly.

Today, I drove northbound on Broadway past Incarnate Word. It was in daylight, with a dry road and I had a difficult time finding the lanes. I would have been accused of driving erratically just trying to find a lane to stay in. I do not believe on a wet, dark night I would have done any better.

Question-

Why did the officer not wait for the Alamo Heights police to arrive at the scene while STAYING in his car? What was his rush? It was not as if he were pursuing a murder suspect.

I know that I would be very leery of any car with flashing lights other than an Alamo Heights Police car on that stretch of road.

[Merovee]

Originally Posted by ashbeeigh

I really am confused about your credentials to diagnose someone based on a few articles about the incident. To diagnose someone properly you need to do a complete assessment, which you haven't. So let's not jump to any conclusions that this student had a personality disorder just because he did something risky. Everyone takes risks on a daily basis. Shoot, driving is a risk and we all take it.

Agreed that diagnosis by unqualified professionals, whether online or not, is not a great idea.

No one has done that on this thread. Pondering that something, "could point to a personality disorder", is certainly no diagnosis.

[Merovee]

Originally Posted by staunchcharacter

The whole thing reeks and it's sad that the AHPD, UIW and their President are standing by and letting the wave of moral corruption pass through them. It's an unsavory situation to say the least, continuing to give San Antonio a black eye from the standpoint of police departments... It feels like it's one thing after another.

A rent-a-cop with a spotted history of patrol decided to shoot first before using the can of mace that he more easily could have used to stop the situation. Now, a young, unarmed man is dead.

As I drive by UIW on a regular basis, I would suggest anyone in that area to be cautious... It's unsettling to know that these campus police act impulsively and think later (if at all).

Could the philosophy that a peace officer is a "rent-a-cop" lead to some not taking them serious especially in regards to respecting their firearm?

Being pulled over, at least in my mind, is a serious matter.

Hopefully the deceased did not share in such a philosophy, but who really knows at this stage.

[WilGar]

Originally Posted by Neshomamench

Leaving your hyperbole aside...

In most every roadside shooting incident it goes from (insert mundane reason for traffic stop) to "shootout" very quickly. How else can it possibly work?

You are assuming that the moment the lights turn on for the stop is when the clock starts running. Nope, that is wrong. It is that way for the OFFICER....in almost all cases it is NOT that way for the person being pulled over. In most traffic stop shootings, the clock has been running for the Actor for a long time. He is in flight from a crime. He is in a state of mind. He is on the hunt......

The Officer is almost always the one who is surprised.

Anyone who has been involved in small unit or individual armed conflict can tell you, when things go bad they tend to go bad fast. It is the nature of the beast. An Officer can walk out of Starbucks at 12:30 with a cup of coffee and a smile. He met his wife up there, they kiss goodbye and have a mundane conversation about "lets eat at Rosarios on Thursday and then go get cake at Madhatters"...Officer gets into his car and pulls out at 12:32. Sees car going 59 in a 40 at 12:33. Makes contact at 12:35, as he says "Good afternoon, my name is Officer Friendly, the reason why you were stopped...." and at that exact moment, a guy who robbed a bank two hours ago in Austin pulls a gun and fires at the Officer at point blank range. The Officer knocks the guys hand out of the way and returns fire, killing the actor. It is now 12:38.


So you could say "how does someone go from speeding to being shot by the Police in 5 minutes....?" The answer is obvious. A bad guy has had hours on the "edge." The Officer has the time it took to process that a gun was being pointed at him.

....to make the point even more how strange the lives of Officers can be, Said Officer, who went though all of that has class for his Masters program at 8 that night...and he goes. He ends his night with his wife and kids at home. In a few days (because he will be on leave) he will head out and do such things again.

Sorry, but how does one go from being pulled over for a "perceived" traffic stop to your reasoning that he was in flight from a crime?

Is there ANY evidence to corroborate this?

[bspray]

Originally Posted by Merovee

Could the philosophy that a peace officer is a "rent-a-cop" lead to some not taking them serious especially in regards to respecting their firearm?

Being pulled over, at least in my mind, is a serious matter.

Hopefully the deceased did not share in such a philosophy, but who really knows at this stage.

There have been at least 4 or 5 stories in the news over the last year in San Antonio about people posing as cops that were not cops.

It probably wouldn't be a bad idea for the local police depts to get together with the local media and do some PSAs about what is expected at a traffic stop and identify all the local officers a citizen might encounter. Not only that but maybe what to do if you are suspicious of who is representing themselves as a cop.

Off the top of my head, it's possible you could run into SAPD, Bexar County Sherriffs, Alamo Heights PD and Northeast ISD Police all within one area of town. I knew that ACCD had their own police department but I didn't know other colleges in town did.

It might not be a bad idea for some community education.

[geargrinder70]

Originally Posted by WilGar

Things that smell:

1. Texas Rangers being called in so quickly.

2. Bexar County DA involved so quickly.

Today, I drove northbound on Broadway past Incarnate Word. It was in daylight, with a dry road and I had a difficult time finding the lanes. I would have been accused of driving erratically just trying to find a lane to stay in. I do not believe on a wet, dark night I would have done any better.

Question-

Why did the officer not wait for the Alamo Heights police to arrive at the scene while STAYING in his car? What was his rush? It was not as if he were pursuing a murder suspect.

I know that I would be very leery of any car with flashing lights other than an Alamo Heights Police car on that stretch of road.

Should we go ahead and hang the officer now based on your smell test or should we wait and let the qualified investigators to do their jobs before we all put a rope around the officers neck? Just asking.

[bspray]

Originally Posted by WilGar

Things that smell:

1. Texas Rangers being called in so quickly.

2. Bexar County DA involved so quickly.

Today, I drove northbound on Broadway past Incarnate Word. It was in daylight, with a dry road and I had a difficult time finding the lanes. I would have been accused of driving erratically just trying to find a lane to stay in. I do not believe on a wet, dark night I would have done any better.

Question-

Why did the officer not wait for the Alamo Heights police to arrive at the scene while STAYING in his car? What was his rush? It was not as if he were pursuing a murder suspect.

I know that I would be very leery of any car with flashing lights other than an Alamo Heights Police car on that stretch of road.

Originally Posted by geargrinder70

Should we go ahead and hang the officer now based on your smell test or should we wait and let the qualified investigators to do their jobs before we all put a rope around the officers neck? Just asking.

Am I missing something? Is there anywhere in his post where he suggests anything other than he sees oddities that raise questions? I got the impression that he was commenting on factors in the case not suggesting the officer involved was guilty.

[geargrinder70]

Originally Posted by bspray

Am I missing something? Is there anywhere in his post where he suggests anything other than he sees oddities that raise questions? I got the impression that he was commenting on factors in the case not suggesting the officer involved was guilty.

Maybe your impressions of what they were posting are wrong? You are entitled to yours just as I am to mine. Or should everyone on this forum check with you before we come to our own impressions or conclusions about a post? Or does your way of thinking even allow for independent thinking by others. It really doesn't matter either way. Everyone of their questions to me imply they are trying to show how the officer had to be guilty, but like I said you are entitled to your own impression of the post just as I am. So please help yourself.

[geargrinder70]

Originally Posted by bspray

There have been at least 4 or 5 stories in the news over the last year in San Antonio about people posing as cops that were not cops.

It probably wouldn't be a bad idea for the local police depts to get together with the local media and do some PSAs about what is expected at a traffic stop and identify all the local officers a citizen might encounter. Not only that but maybe what to do if you are suspicious of who is representing themselves as a cop.

Off the top of my head, it's possible you could run into SAPD, Bexar County Sherriffs, Alamo Heights PD and Northeast ISD Police all within one area of town. I knew that ACCD had their own police department but I didn't know other colleges in town did.

It might not be a bad idea for some community education.

Just so you will know The Chief of police has been doing public service announcements lately on TV about just what you should do if you are not comfortable with being pulled over where you are at the moment.

[pr57001]

Originally Posted by WilGar

t believe on a wet, dark night I would have done any better.

Question-

Why did the officer not wait for the Alamo Heights police to arrive at the scene while STAYING in his car? What was his rush? It was not as if he were pursuing a murder suspect.

I know that I would be very leery of any car with flashing lights other than an Alamo Heights Police car on that stretch of road.

With a polic e car behind you, you can't tell if it is Alamo Heights or not. Let's be honest, it wasn't a Sable with one rotating red light on the dashboard. This wasn't the SAPD imposter.

And if the suspect leaves his car? The officer should let him leave the scene? Should we never stop suspects, just ask them nicely to turn themselves in? Yell from a PA on the helicopter, "Please stop your car?"