San Antonio Light-Rail... Possibility?...Give SA Light Rail...Light Rail Trolley (Austin: house, bankruptcy)

[Pancho-Villa]

Would've thought it to be more actually. Heck, that new Rams stadium in LA is projected to be 4 or maybe even 5 Billion when it's completed.

[Pancho-Villa]

Originally Posted by TexasRedneck

$1.8 Billion construction only - and that was in 2016.

Another reason to build it sooner rather than later.

[TexasRedneck]

Originally Posted by Pancho-Villa

Another reason to build it sooner rather than later.

That's construction only - who knows what right-of-way will cost, much less the equipment.

[Pancho-Villa]

Easily made with the taxes I suggested before...make them perpetual. No locals pay anything. Involve private money ...but then other things come into play...like profit...lol.
Otherwise play to break even (bringing tourist money etc to both cities.).


Are you for this or against this if no taxpayer money is used? How about no profit vs. profit?

[malcorub16]

1.8 Billion for the SA to Austin rail? Or where would the track go?

I will say the trolley comes in useful here in San Diego for those that don't have vehicles or whose vehicle is out of commission if and when you live near the trolley line, otherwise at the moment driving is still very convenient. The only time I use the trolley here in SD is when I am going to be downtown on a crowded evening and I know parking is going to be a bear. Its nice to have but not necessary like the Muni/Bart is in SF or the Subway in NYC. I would imagine it would be the same in SA.

[OzzyRules]

I don't think profit is a good idea on it's own, so it probably shouldn't be a factor in this.

[TexasRedneck]

Originally Posted by Pancho-Villa

Easily made with the taxes I suggested before...make them perpetual. No locals pay anything. Involve private money ...but then other things come into play...like profit...lol.
Otherwise play to break even (bringing tourist money etc to both cities.).


Are you for this or against this if no taxpayer money is used? How about no profit vs. profit?

If it was viable for the private sector, it would have been done already. Several of the RR lines have looked at it, and after study found it to not be economically feasible. If someone in the private sector wants to take a shot at it, that's fine - it's their money. BUT - it must be done with NO public sector funding OR financing guarantees. We already subsidize bus lines - this monstrosity would make THAT undertaking look like pennies.

In 2015, Hotel Occupancy Tax in San Antonio TOTALED $78.9 million dollars. Sound like a lot? Think again - because that pie is already sliced and dedicated to:

Arts - 15%
History & Preservation - 15%
Convention Facilities - 35%
Convention/Tourism Dept - 35%


So...let's see - $1.8 Billion plus another 1 Billion for equipment/start-up plus whatever the ROW's will cost - oh, and you also have to factor in the cost of relocating and upgrading the bypass rail lines so the freight trains currently running alongside 35 can be dedicated to passenger rail.....

Let's just call it a nice, low $5 billion. Now....debt service - factor at a 4% APR, and you've got $200 million a year. That's almost THREE times the TOTAl annual HOT the city currently gets. I promise you - there's NO way you could jump the HOT that much without seeing a major exodus in conventions to the city.....so where would it come from? And again - the numbers above are QUITE low - and I've not been able to find ANY numbers that've actually been put forth to detail the overall costs, but Nashville just defeated a proposal for a light rail system that would have cost $5.4 billion for 26 miles of rail.

Extrapolating from THAT number, we're looking in the range of $15 billion - which moves that annual debt service to $600 million. And remember - that does NOT include operating costs.

Now - add to the mix that public transit ridership is dropping all around the country - including Austin - and the ROI of this project goes from bleak to "Ain't no way!"

Passing a light rail proposal would, I'm afraid, put a millstone around the necks of the taxpayers and their children for many, many years to come.

[malcorub16]

The thing is, don't most if not all mass transit systems in the USA operate on a deficit? Which ones actually do make a profit?

[TexasRedneck]

Originally Posted by malcorub16

The thing is, don't most if not all mass transit systems in the USA operate on a deficit? Which ones actually do make a profit?

Thing is, this one would set records in terms of operating deficits - there's not nearly enough ridership to offset the operational costs alone.

[Pancho-Villa]

I think you forgot to add in the taxes from the rental cars and also both of the same for Austin. Also, both of these areas are among the "fastest growing " metros in the country...ain't no way the ridership would decrease after opening. This would be a "new" tax and dedicated solely for this project at 100%.