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Hi all. This is my first post here and I don't know if anyone will have answers, but it's worth a try.
We rented a home in Lake Arrowhead in August of 2007. We signed a one year lease and since it expired we have been on a month-to-month basis with the landlord. The property is managed by a rental agent who acts on behalf of the owner (we've never actually had contact with her directly).
We gave written notice of our intent to vacate as of December 4th, 2008. We knew the owner did not intend to re-rent the property. We asked the rental agent if it would be all right to have extra time to clean beyond the 1st. She said if we needed another week, that would be fine. Well, unfortunately, between the terrible storms we had and how busy we were, it took us an additional month beyond the 1st to get everything done.
We had a $2000 security deposit and an additional $200 pet deposit.
On January 5th we had a walk through with the rental agent. She said everything looked fine and complimented us on the job we did. In addition to cleaning I replaced 2 blinds that broke (one which never worked properly since we moved in), fixed some screens, fixed the screen door, and a few other odds and ends. The rental agent indicated that she would have the owner come and that our 21 day waiting period began on the 5th.
Ok, so here we are on the 28th, the rental agent arrives with a check for $305.00! The owner is charging us for a months loss of use (even though she wasn't going to use it anyway) along with $600.00 to repair the wood floor (which we already spent $200 on) and $95.00 for a thermostat which she replaced because she didn't like the one I put in at my own expense because she wasn't happy with the programmable digital thermostat I had put in previously.
I know that she has a right to charge us for the time we took to finish, however, at no time did anyone even mention that this was the case. We were in contact throughout the month with the rental agent and though she indicated that the owner really wanted us to finish, no mention was made of additional charges.
The rental agent is claiming that she didn't receive the keys until the 8th, putting her within the 21 days, however she had the key on the 5th. I know we're splitting hairs, but I'm not walking away with only $305 of our security deposit. Technically, if I understand the law, if they don't return our money within the 21 days, we are entitled to a complete refund of all the deposit. Also, if I understand it correctly, they were required to notify us in writing that we had the right to a preliminary walk-through 2 weeks before our vacate date to go over any issues. We never received such a notice.
How would it be best to handle the situation? What does the law say regarding who makes the decision regarding the walk through? The owner hired a contractor at $1800.00 to repair the floor and some minor damage to a wall. Do they have to get other estimates? Do we have the right to choose someone else? We believe that since the rental agent is acting on behalf of the owner, and she was our only contact, her decision should be what we go by. We're willing to work with the owner to solve the issue with the floor, but we feel like their trying to make this into a war.
We'd love to know where we can turn to determine the best course of action.
I have been in similar situations several times. Here is what I think you should do:
1. Learn to not be such a nice person unless you get a written contract.
2. Remember: that sometimes bad people actually DO get away with it.
3. Refuse to lose your faith in people.
4. Shake off your anger--this may take a bit of time--but actively work at ridding yourself of it. The anger will just hurt you more than it will give you any of your hard-earned money back.
5. Tell the real estate agent that you will be filing a report--and naming names on www.ripoffreport.com but make darn sure you tell the 100% truth--on top of everything else you don't want to be sued for slander or libel. Just relate the facts, leave your feelings about the agent or landlord out of the report.
We didn't pay rent for the extra month- that's what they're charging us $1200.00 for. We weren't living in the house during that month. We did have a few things there as I stated- mostly cleaning supplies and tools.
I have written a letter to the agent and owner stating our position and offering to pay for 3 weeks rent as we had agreed to allow us an extra week for cleaning and refusing to pay for the floor or thermostat.
I was hoping someone would reply with information on whether, should we take them to court, it was likely that we would get a summary judgment in our favor since they exceeded the 21 days and didn't give us a written notice of our right to a preliminary walk-through.
We didn't pay rent for the extra month- that's what they're charging us $1200.00 for. We weren't living in the house during that month. We did have a few things there as I stated- mostly cleaning supplies and tools.
I have written a letter to the agent and owner stating our position and offering to pay for 3 weeks rent as we had agreed to allow us an extra week for cleaning and refusing to pay for the floor or thermostat.
I was hoping someone would reply with information on whether, should we take them to court, it was likely that we would get a summary judgment in our favor since they exceeded the 21 days and didn't give us a written notice of our right to a preliminary walk-through.
Ted
Personally ! your wasting your time . You state you moved out but you still had stuff there , you state you didn't finish the cleaning as you said you would , you stated you did some repairs to the floor, Did it look the same as when you moved in ? you state you changed the thermostat , they have a right to put it back to their liking ( you should have had them change it if it was not working). you state there was a little damage to the wall? They have a right to do the repairs with out any bid, wheather or not you like the cost. And what ever reasonable price the contractor charges and it can and will be deducted from your deposit ( that what it's for) As for the 21 days rule , it it took him extra time to fix it up I dout the court will listen to you . Good luck !
Well, I think you might be wrong on a couple of points. First, from what I can tell, there is no excuse for going beyond the 21 day period, anymore than there is an excuse for us going beyond our move out day. It hardly makes sense that she is entitled to keep our money after the law says she must return it, but that we are expected to pay for any days we go past our vacate date. Second, there is no requirement that it look the same as when we moved in. The law allows for normal wear and tear, which in the case of a softwood floor could be extensive. However, this is a large part of the problem- we actually left the floor in better condition than we got it, but when our handyman restained parts of it, the color didn't match exactly. So, while the surface of the floor is better, the color is not. Who decides?
As for the thermostat. I was told that the owner wanted a simple thermostat that only had a temperature setting and on/off controls. This is what I put in. She then decided that it needed a thermometer after we moved out and had that put in at with a labor cost of $75.00. I'm sorry, but I provided what she asked for, if she wants something more, then I don't believe I should be made to pay for it.
Don't get us wrong, we are willing to try to come to an agreement with the owner. We know we should have finished sooner, but due to a number of reasons we didn't. One of the reasons was that we believed (wrongly, as it turns out) that time wasn't an issue for the owner. Also, the rental agent wasn't available for much of the month of December. We have written a letter offering to pay 3 weeks rent (one additional week had been agreed to) and nothing more. We feel that the floor is fine. In fact, the rental agent did not anticipate any problems on our walk through. We don't believe we should pay anything for the thermostat.
Fighter 1- I don't know your background- is this a field that you have any experience in? Or is yours just a personal opinion? Just wondering.
First, you are responsible to pay for rent until the day the keys are returned, meaning that is when you are no longer in possession of the property. Rent to be pro-rated on daily basis based on a 30 day calendar month. It doesn't matter if they were going to re-rent it or not. As far as the walk-through it should be stated in the rental agreement or security deposit agreement.
You also stated that while the floor had been repaired that the stain did not match. The LL has to remedy that. As far as the thermostat? Who knows. I know that I would never replace something in my rental unless the LL/agent and I came to an agreement and they paid for it and had it replaced.
As the renter you are entitled to see the receipts for the work performed. If you are getting any of your money back then consider yourself lucky.
If you still disagree then my suggestion is to write a letter stating why you feel the amount of the deposit is not enough and send it certified mail.
I don't consider getting back $305 out of $2200 "lucky".
Of course we know that they are entitled to charge us for the days we were there. I think the frustration is in that we were kind of led to believe that she wasn't going to take that approach and so we weren't too concerned about the time. Since she wasn't going to move into the property or re-rent it and there was never any indication that she was going to seek payment for the days before we returned the keys (and remember, we spoke to the rental agent numerous times), we feel like we were blindsided. Because our relationship had always been one of working together and helping each other, we didn't think this was how she would handle things.
As for the floor, I really don't know who is right. The floor is in better condition, but it's not perfect. I just think they could have worked with us to resolve things. Also, the homeowner did see things prior to our returning the keys but after we had moved out and the only problem we were made aware of was the thermostat.
All of you that have replied seem to think that the 21 day rule is not significant and the failure to inform us of the preliminary walk-through isn't important either. Does anyone know how the courts in California regard these omissions?
The rules apply both ways. Assuming what you thought was going to happen is on you. Also as a renter you need to be pro-active. If you were not asked about the walk-through... why didn't you request one?
The floor is in better condition as you said...but if the owner had to pay to make it color match... then they are within their right as the property owner to do. You are entitled to see the receipts...
Now you want the owner/agent held to the strictest standards in regards to the amount and return time of your deposit.
As I said before if you are going to fight this then you need to first write a letter to the owner/agent stating why you believe that you are entitled to more of a return.
Again, we are not suggesting that we should receive all of our money. We know she is within her rights to take the money for the extra time. It seems to us that THEY are trying to get every cent that is within their rights of the letter of the law. If so, then they should be held to those same laws. If she is entitled to have work done for whatever price as long as she provides receipts then she should have to do it within the time allotted by the law. We didn't know there was a law requiring a preliminary walk-through notification. Why would I request something I didn't know I was entitled to. The law says THEY are REQUIRED to notify us IN WRITING of this right. Didn't happen. It seems to us that we are willing to work to resolve this and the attitude on their side is one of refusing to be reasonable. You are painting it the other way around.
In all honesty, our main complaint is with the rental agent who is supposed to be representing both parties. We feel she did a very poor job in her handling of this. All along she was telling us things were fine and then she drops this on us with the attitude that she didn't know. When the person who is going to do the walk-through is gone for 2 weeks, you figure it won't matter too much when you finish.
I have written a letter. I e-mailed it to the rental agent last night and I'm going to mail out copies tomorrow certified. We'll see if we can work it out. I hope so.
ted
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